KOs of 1987 Japanese exclusive Headmaster Heads + more

The news of this release came out a few days ago. The following Japanese exclusive and ultra rare and expensive heads has been KO-ed and put in a giftset box:

1. Karku (Kirk)
2. Rodney
3. Loafer
4. Lione
5. Trizor
6. Shuffler
7. Spike
8. Grand (Grand Max head)
9. Lord Zarak (Scorponok); and
10. Black Zarak's head

The first 6 has also been KO-ed as their Japan store exclusive, prototype white versions.

This is huge news and definitely major news for serious G1 collectors wanting to finish off the Japanese exclusives. Apart from the Dino-casettes, the 6 Headmaster Heads, especially the white versions, were all but unobtainable even if one had money to blow. I have spent many months and many many hours searching for the originals of these heads in the US, HK, SG, M'sia and Japan, but still came up empty. When I did find them, they were selling for in excess of $500 per head. Griffin would agree with how rare for example, Shuffler is.

According to veteran G1 collectors on TFW2005, the KO versions of these are virtually indistinguishable from the real ones except for the Takara stamps. The plastic quality used is also apparently superior to the vintages and the white heads uses a compound that is yellow resistant (apparently).

Only 1 seller on eBay has these and in the span of 2 days, he must have sold in excess of 30 sets. Each batch of auctions of 10 he/she loads up sells out within the hour. Here is the link. Some members on TFW2005 was already selling, but has sold out of sets, for US$250 each.

I managed to get 1 coloured set and 1 white set with-very-great-difficulty. These could become just as rare as the fabled Cliffjumper upgrade kit (but don't quote me on that).

Some pictures here (not my pictures).

10 heads set giftset box

http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/45...500x500Q85.jpg http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/46...500x500Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/45...500x500Q85.jpg http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/36...500x500Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/24...500x500Q85.jpg

The white "prototype" versions.
In the 80s, these were only available on a very exclusive basis in certain retail stores in Japan and by far rarer than the already rare coloured versions. It's so rare that even Transformers: Generations only pictured the white Shuffler but not all the other 5 white heads. According to the seller I bought from, there are only 100 sets of white prototypes KO-ed and once sold out, that's it (if that can be believed).

http://inlinethumb37.webshots.com/47...500x500Q85.jpg http://inlinethumb58.webshots.com/23...500x500Q85.jpg

80 dollars is comedy.

The REAL ones are rare and "worth" what they cost. These are just mass produced fakes.

HD, please please please post up some photographs of the KO versions of the Headmaster Warriors where the date stamps are meant to reside, as well as the rivets on both sides.

I've been doing some research of my own into these and I've been following the sales of these sets on TFW2005 myself. I think Griffin was going to post some photo's for me in this older thread related to KO Headmaster Warriors.

i will certain post pics when I receive them. I just checked my original Spike, Zarak and Black Zarak and these do not have stamps on them. So they would have to be identified in other ways.

I read from TFW that the other 6 have stamps. So, we'll see. All of the ones from other auctions like Italy and all that were sourced from China it appears. A few sellers here and there were selling loose ones separately but now the 'manufacturer' have decided that they will sell it as a giftset.

I just bought a set from this guy too (I think). He also sells them on ioffer, if anyone is trying to get any. I think he still has some white gift sets left there too.

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Originally Posted by FFN

80 dollars is comedy.

The REAL ones are rare and "worth" what they cost. These are just mass produced fakes.

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Pretty harsh there.

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Originally Posted by heroic_decepticon

Pretty harsh there.

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Na I think its fair, it will be mass produced no one is going to be naive enough to think a KO maker is going to produce a limited run!!! Give it some time and price will come way down. Look at the devastator KO giftset and others boxed KO's.

The guys that produce them will be laughing all the way to the bank, and the lucky ones who own originals will be very pi55ed.

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Originally Posted by Skull Cruncher

Na I think its fair, it will be mass produced no one is going to be naive enough to think a KO maker is going to produce a limited run!!! Give it some time and price will come way down. Look at the devastator KO giftset and others boxed KO's.

The guys that produce them will be laughing all the way to the bank, and the lucky ones who own originals will be very pi55ed.

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There have been many KO's that have had limited production runs e.g. G1 minibots, G1 cassettes (+ clear versions), Reflector, so there is good reason to suspect that these will be limited as well.

KO makers have the same limitations that Hasbro / TakTom have such as mold degradation and production costs. Given that most KO makers operate on a smaller scale with limited funds, there is no such thing as an endless supply of toys.

Your other point perplexes me - if someone already owns the originals, why would they care about KO's being produced? I know I don't because I'm not looking at resale value, however in most cases, original toys hold their value even more due to being original. I only feel for those that have yet to track down original toys and have to be especially careful when making a purchase because of so many dishonest sellers looking to flog-off KO's as legit toys.

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Originally Posted by 5FDP

Your other point perplexes me - if someone already owns the originals, why would they care about KO's being produced? I know I don't because I'm not looking at resale value, however in most cases, original toys hold their value even more due to being original. I only feel for those that have yet to track down original toys and have to be especially careful when making a purchase because of so many dishonest sellers looking to flog-off KO's as legit toys.

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Well say if you bought a transformer for $400 and for health reasons or whatever you need to sell it - would you mind if you got $300 because of KO's being freely available decreasing the amount of demand or $500+ which is its actual worth. You could advertise it as a buy now but with KO's vitually the same quality you could be advertising for a very long time.

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Originally Posted by Skull Cruncher

Well say if you bought a transformer for $400 and for health reasons or whatever you need to sell it - would you mind if you got $300 because of KO's being freely available decreasing the amount of demand or $500+ which is its actual worth. You could advertise it as a buy now but with KO's vitually the same quality you could be advertising for a very long time.

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But there are still those out there (myself included) that would rather have an original than a KO. The value of an original won't necessarily go down.

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Originally Posted by 1AZRAEL1

The value of an original won't necessarily go down.

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Correct. In fact there is no supportive evidence whatsoever to suggest that KO's have any adverse effect on the price of original toys.

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Originally Posted by 5FDP

Correct. In fact there is no supportive evidence whatsoever to suggest that KO's have any adverse effect on the price of original toys.

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And until there is some evidence either way I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I can still see people getting caught like even with the obvious KO's (MIB Prime, Devestator Giftset) some still go for way to much.

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Originally Posted by Skull Cruncher

And until there is some evidence either way I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

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Put it this way, if KO's did effect the cost of original G1 toys (in that they went cheaper) I would have bought them all by now ;)

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Originally Posted by Skull Cruncher

I can still see people getting caught like even with the obvious KO's (MIB Prime, Devestator Giftset) some still go for way to much.

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Agreed. However if they already have them, then there shouldn't be a problem.

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Originally Posted by Skull Cruncher

Well say if you bought a transformer for $400 and for health reasons or whatever you need to sell it - would you mind if you got $300 because of KO's being freely available decreasing the amount of demand or $500+ which is its actual worth. You could advertise it as a buy now but with KO's vitually the same quality you could be advertising for a very long time.

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I actually HAVE had to sell part of my collection to pay for health treatment, and it really IS quite distressing. My experience has been though that you loose SO much trying to sell a MIB item that you purchased MISB..... or because Takara decides to reissue a toy that was really left of field and not expected, like Seacons, or Skylynxs.

*no*person in their right mind should seriously consider buying plastic toys that age and crack as "investments"

Comics, maybe, if you're talking gold or silver age, but any collectible that's only a few decades old? I mean we may pay a small fortune for a SDCC exclusive toy, but in our hearts we know its really NOT worth that amount for a toy.

relliyd, sorry to hear about that.

Interesting discussion about whether KOs will affect the price of vintages. I think it depends on lots of factors, the basic ones being supply and demand.

Having KOs flood the market means an increased supply and if demand remains constant, would decrease the price of the toys. However, this must also be seen in light of how many people (from the existing demand pool) are willing to buy the KO substitute for the real thing. In terms of percentage, I think its not large (but I could be wrong, as I often am). Looking at it from the sellers' perspective, the supply for genuine toys may actually decrease because they are not willing to sell their wares for fear of it being mistaken for KOs and thus fetching a much lower price than its worth. Less supply, demand constant = price for vintages actually goes up! (did I say I've been known to be wrong). Certainly the evil-bay trend over the last 4 to 5 years have shown that vintages still register a strong demand with correspondingly high prices, despite the deluge of KOs and "reissues", both legit and not-legit.

In that regard, I think 5FDP seemed to touch on the right note. There may, however, be the odd auction here and there that goes for a very low amount or a very high amount, but those are the exceptions rather than the rule.

*apologies for double post, but talking about different stuff*

Back on topic.

Just checked out the seller's iOffer sales thread and he has as of today already sold about 40 sets (just based on the number of unique buyers). However, most buyers buy more than one set. Notably, some guy from Netherlands bought 6 sets each; some guy from Singapore bought 13 sets, all no doubt to scalp.

Over the course of today and yesterday, there have been a number of Australian buyers. They are from Ferntree Gully, Victoria, Glebe, Wiley Park and Sydney.

True to his word that he is doing it for the fandom, the seller has not marked up his selling price and has also kept his shipping constant and modest at US$25 to ship anywhere in the world, despite the craze in demand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skull Cruncher

Na I think its fair, it will be mass produced no one is going to be naive enough to think a KO maker is going to produce a limited run!!! Give it some time and price will come way down. Look at the devastator KO giftset and others boxed KO's.

The guys that produce them will be laughing all the way to the bank, and the lucky ones who own originals will be very pi55ed.

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You could be right, but I guess only time will tell. However, I tend to agree with 5FDP. Some KOs and repros indeed do have a very limited run.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 5FDP

There have been many KO's that have had limited production runs e.g. G1 minibots, G1 cassettes (+ clear versions), Reflector, so there is good reason to suspect that these will be limited as well.

KO makers have the same limitations that Hasbro / TakTom have such as mold degradation and production costs. Given that most KO makers operate on a smaller scale with limited funds, there is no such thing as an endless supply of toys.

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+ 1

Regardless of how KOs may affect the cost of originals, it doesn't change the fact that they're just counterfeit imitations.

That Netherlands guy - gerrutcamaro is an ebay seller of TFs - I just recently bought from him - AM G1s. Hmmm guess if it shows up in his list I know Im not buying originals then..:)

I can only imagine accurate KOs devaluing legit toys when they are very common and competitively priced. I don't think the KO Headmaster heads apply as they are not common nor competitively priced.

The reason why reissues devalue the vintage article is because they are competitively priced and easily available but as the reissue 'ages' and becomes less common, it eventually balances out with the legit article as the reissue begins to increase in price.

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Originally Posted by kup

I can only imagine accurate KOs devaluing legit toys when they are very common and competitively priced. I don't think the KO Headmaster heads apply as they are not common nor competitively priced.

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They will when people no longer bid high amounts on genuine heads out of fear that they might be knockoffs.

If this was a legitimate reissue set it would be awesome, by the way.

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Originally Posted by liegeprime

That Netherlands guy - gerrutcamaro is an ebay seller of TFs - I just recently bought from him - AM G1s. Hmmm guess if it shows up in his list I know Im not buying originals then..:)

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yup, I bought from gerrutcamaro before too. Actually, I can recognise a lot of the IDs of the people buying this set as matching sellers' IDs on eBay. I think rule of thumb is that if its a loose Headmaster head, there is a good chance that its not the real thing.

Like Kup said, I don't think these repros will actually devalue the actual heads, the problem with the actual heads are that no one can actually find any!

hmmm wonder when are they getting around to the JApan only dino cassettrons? bet those would sell like original priced and faster than you can blink...KO notwithstanding:o

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Originally Posted by liegeprime

hmmm wonder when are they getting around to the JApan only dino cassettrons? bet those would sell like original priced and faster than you can blink...KO notwithstanding:o

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I did hear that they are. Maybe the people the bid the highest on the Dino casettes on eBay are actually KO-ers intending to reverse engineer them :eek:

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Originally Posted by heroic_decepticon

I did hear that they are. Maybe the people the bid the highest on the Dino casettes on eBay are actually KO-ers intending to reverse engineer them :eek:

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hmmm guess they have money to burn... but also if you think about it, they're gonna surely slug it price wise( to recuperate the loss they paid for the dino cassettrons;))

Having handled these at BotCon I'm very tempted to buy a set - the quality is excellent, but you can instantly tell they aren't original from the rivets, let alone the lack of copyrights, which is something I greatly appreciate.

To this date does anyone know of any KO headmaster warriors that include the date stamps?

He's listed another 10 sets at $80 a go, I caved. I feel bad about it, but at least they aren't trying to pass them off as genuine figures. If they were I would've passed.

It's an awesome set, easy to tell apart from the legit ones too. For rare items like this a KO will have zero impact on value of originals.

It's not the value I'm worried about, I just don't like KOs that try to look genuine out of principle.

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Originally Posted by TheHandsomeCrab

He's listed another 10 sets at $80 a go, I caved. I feel bad about it, but at least they aren't trying to pass them off as genuine figures. If they were I would've passed.

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I know the feeling. I caved too. I still feel bad about it. I'll see how it goes.

Seems that there is a flood of them on ebay now, with some sellers charging the 'recommended' cost (about $80 for the set of 10), while other sellers are hoping to suck in buyers who don't yet know that the individual heads aren't worth $100+ each, but would be thinking they are getting a good deal compared to the originals.
http://www.seibertron.com/transforme...nd-more/19139/

The flood gates are opening on evil-bay...

Trizer
Lione
Kirk
Loafer
Shuffler

Sigh, oh noooooooo.....:(

It's good to see that none of these KO's are emulating the date stamp though.

That seller has put up another ten. They seem to go quick, so get' em if you want 'em.

Review, including differences to original Spike

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Originally Posted by jaydisc

That seller has put up another ten. They seem to go quick, so get' em if you want 'em.

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and they're gone :(... again, sigh, wonder what time he posts it:o:o

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Originally Posted by liegeprime

and they're gone :(... again, sigh, wonder what time he posts it:o:o

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dude, what not do the iOffer thing. They don't go so quick there because there technically isn't a BIN option. Also, payment is through paypal which means you're covered (to the extent PayPal covers such transactions).

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Originally Posted by heroic_decepticon

dude, what not do the iOffer thing. They don't go so quick there because there technically isn't a BIN option. Also, payment is through paypal which means you're covered (to the extent PayPal covers such transactions).

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no
paypal wont cover you on ioffer
trust me, been there done that

ok, I stand corrected then. Apologies liege.

Anyway, I got mine from iOffer as did many people from TFW (in excess of 20+ I'd think) and so far they've all got their stuff. Seller provides us with an EMS number and all. This seller (Headmaster1987) is pretty reliable and according to what I've seen in TFW, we think that its the one and the same guy who's selling it on eBay (fantasy toys).

I'll post more feedback here when mine arrive next week.