RNG prize boxes and international/Australian regulation laws

I'm not sure how many of the forumites are gamers or familiar with the concept of RNG prize boxes, but since I know very few Aussie gamers, I figured this was the best place to get feedback about this topic.

Some necessary background:
An RNG prizebox is a box that has a very low chance of unlocking a valuable ingame item for use.

The one most familiar to this forum would be the Premium/Character crystals in the mobile game Transformers Earth Wars, with a 2% chance of unlocking a 4* character.

Star Trek Online has the Lockbox, which has an chance of winning a superrare endgame ship so low it's nearly impossible to win one.

There are many other games who use these items, for the sake of making money by selling nothing.

Recently, concerns have been raised by Australia and the Netherlands (primarily) about how these ingame items are encouraging a gambling addiction and wasteful spending of money.
A international commission on the topic was actually held in Washington DC as a result of these concerns being stated.

The Netherlands took the necessary step of banning all RNG prize boxes for sale in games accessible to their citizens.
This resulted in a retaliatory move by SquareEnix, who disabled Kingdom Hearts Unchained for those players, simply because they weren't permitted to sell their RNG boxes in that country.

Which got me wondering, are Australian gamers likely to experience the same retaliation if our government passes the same legislation on our own?
That we'll be locked out of a game we enjoy because of this restriction?

Naturally, as a veteran/dedicated Star Trek Online player, I'll be incredibly resentful if I lose everything I worked so hard over years to build up simply because Perfect World gets snitty about this legislation.
FYI, Star Trek Online is attempting to dodge the gambling comparison by claiming the superrare ships are not the motivation for opening Lockboxes, that the players want the specific ingame currency inside the boxes instead.
That's a lie, any player will tell you they're opening the boxes to get a superrare ship 90% of the time.


The only hope Australian gamers have for a suitable resolution is if the Washington commission institutes a world wide ban on RNG boxes, which will mean all the game companies will have to follow along, since they can't ban every player in the world.

People who pay money to open loot boxes are idiots. You're paying a game to roll a dice for you on the off chance that it will roll a double six and actually give you what you want. There is no skill, no gameplay and no input from the player.

I say this as a gamer who has no issue or qualm with direct purchase DLC whether it be a few bucks on a Killing Floor skin or $105 AUD for a DCS World add on. I'm happy to put my money on the table as long as I am absolutely certain what I'm buying.

It's a predatory practise that is enabled by the consumers that buy into it. I'd love to see the bans in Belgium and the Netherlands spread if only because it will eventually force game publishers to adopt a direct purchase model for in game marketplaces.

If that results in some publishers pulling regional support so be it.

I have been playing Final Fantasy Brave Exvius since it started. I just cant believe you have to pay $75 for a chance to get a rare character in a pool of 100+. And there is just a high chance of just getting a rare but weak character.
It gets worse nowadays as it pushes free to play gamers off by throwing limited characters only.

I've joined a board for this game and you won't believe how many people there spend sooo much money just to try to get their favourite character. Well i've never spent anything and just tried to create a second account, but it became too stressful i'm just occassionally playing it. Though it is sad to loose our friends in Belgium when the law was passed (some i guess are using VPNs now) but i guess it is for the better.

As a long time player of Earth Wars (maybe 18mths) I purchased a few Crystal Packs back when I first started playing but quickly realised that they are a complete rip off ($15 for 5 crystals) due to the high chance of duplicate bots and low chance of getting a good 4* bot. I actually emailed the support team for an explanation on the last set I purchased which stated "A good chance to get named Bot" however I didn't even get one 2* bot from that batch of crystals for the "Named Bot" but instead received 5 duplicates of other bots...

Their Response below, I thought I'd show this to help others to make a more informed decision before paying for the crystals in this game...nothing more

"Hello,

I’m sorry to hear that the results of your crystals have not been favorable. Unfortunately, it will sometimes work out that way due to luck as the rewards from crystals are completely randomised in the way that each crystals has its own chance of containing a certain bot. Additionally, some bots are rarer by name as well as 3 and 4-star versions. Because of this, we are unable to guarantee that the results of crystals will be a new bot or of the highest quality. The published crystal’s chance of dropping a specific level character is per crystal and may be found by clicking on the tooltip (?) for each crystal available for purchase. Each individual crystal is a separate chance. These drop rates are not compounding based on the number of crystals you open.

Character crystals do offer a greater chance to receive a specific character; however, it’s not guaranteed that the bot you receive will be the one the character crystal is for. This is noted in game by either the bundle which says “a chance to get” or by the question mark icon that appears on the upper left side of each crystal which states that these character crystals contain a higher chance for specific bots but also include a chance at others.

As mentioned, crystals are randomised which unfortunately means that it’s statistically possible to experience unlucky outcomes such as these as the current system we have in place works with odds and bad luck streaks can happen. When you receive a duplicate you’re provided with an array of resources which may help with progressing other aspects of your base such as upgrading bots, Combiners, and working towards specific star crystals. Regardless, I understand that you aren’t comfortable with the current crystal system which is why I’d be more than happy to make note of your individual experience and concerns and pass them along to the development team for further consideration should they make adjustments to the current crystal system and the odds of receiving new bots.

Best wishes,
XxXxX
Transformers: Earth Wars Support"

I have not purchased any of the packs since then but instead have had more luck getting good bots through free crystals (1 every 8 hours) and the shards you accumulate from participating in Alliance and Individual events. The Duplicates still come through more often than not this way too sadly but at least I am not paying for it with cash.

At this point I would be more open to spending money on the game if I knew what I was getting as mentioned above. $5 or there about for a favourite bot would be perfectly acceptable in my books because I know I will get what I paid for...

Here's a couple of occurrences that happened to me recently one favourable and one not with free Crystals/Shards.

There are currently sixty-four 4* bots in the game and I have twelve. The Alliance event guaranteed a 4* crystal if your alliance reached something like 300K battle points by the end (which we did) - I received a duplicate 4* bot from the 4* crystal I had won :rolleyes:

On another occasion I won a 4* bot from a ripple on effect of shards. From a free crystal I won 1000 premium shards which equals a premium crystal. From this I got a duplicate 3* bot which gave me 60 4* shards (this adds to you current tally of shards) which gave me enough for a 4 star crystal (as I had something like 2450 4* shards in my kitty from other duplicates or events prizes) which gave me a 4* bot I didn’t have…winner :D

To say you win some you lose some is not very accurate for odds in this game though more like you lose some, you lose some more then you might win some...:D

Shards = Crystals Chart for those who haven't played Earth Wars

Shards are won from free crystals, duplicate bots or events (Individual and Alliance) Some Events give you whole Crystals as prizes.

1000 premium shards = 1 x Premium Crystal - chance to get 2*, 3*, 4* bot
1400 2* shards = 1 x 2* crystal - chance to get 2* bot
2000 3* shards = 1 x 3* crystal - chance to get 3* bot
2500 4* shards = 1 x 4* crystal - chance to get 4* bot
5000 5* shards = 1 x 5* crystal - chance to get 5* bot

When you pay real money for crystal packs you are buying the equivalent of the premium Crystals as you get a chance to get 2*, 3*, 4* bot. I believe the chance of getting a 4* bot is a little higher though 1.8% as apposed to a 1% chance on the premium Crystal :rolleyes:

I've got 26 4* in Transformers Earth Wars and have only gotten one of those from a character unlock crystal.
So my opinion is, don't waste your money trying to get a 4* from paid crystals and spend it on real Transformer toys instead.

The only thing you should spend money on in TFEW is Build Bots, because having five instead of three is much more useful.

@RavageCat
I think I heard a similar thing from SpaceApe as well.

Also, I bought some prizeboxes in Kingdom Hearts Unchained on a whim and despite the box text clearly stating 5 boxes would unlock the rare prize if the previous four didn't, I still didn't get it. I bought seven before giving up.
And when I reported this to Square Enix, they told me the prize was not guaranteed within 5 boxes, despite the very clear and obvious ingame text stating this was the case.
Which was also sent to them as a screenshot, so they could not deny it, even if they did!


With Star Trek Online, I wish they did go for direct purchasing of the superrare ships instead of putting them in lockboxes.
I don't mind paying money for items ingame, but only if the purchase will grant it directly.
I'm hoping STO will be forced to go for direct ship selling if these regulations are passed, since they won't be able to use the lockboxes to grant them anymore.

And to give an idea of how money is wasted, someone told me it's like $300 to get one of these superrare ships, which can only be used on one character.
For context, a directly purchased ship is accessible to all characters on your account.
By the way, the Lifetime subscription to STO costs $300 dollars, so you're paying as much as that is worth for one single superrare ship.

With those odds how can it be anything else but gambling?

Wasnt there a ruling that it was deemed as gambling last year?

That's exactly the point that the game industry is refusing to acknowledge publicly/officially.

Let's run through the checklist:
1. Low chance of reward.
2. Encourages people to spend lots of money in pursuit of a goal most likely not to happen.
3. Causes addictive obsessiveness in pursuit of the grand prize.
4. Can result in financial hardship if the addictive spending overrides the common sense to stop spending.
5. Benefits the corporation by increasing income for no or little payout granted, minimal benefit to the customers.

Anything that hits all those checkpoints is gambling, there's no negotiation or debate.

I expect the companies know all this anyway, they just want to keep the system running because it's profitable for them.
And they'll probably do so right up until the day they're ordered to cease&desist by international law, just to squeeze the last few dollars out of a vulnerable playerbase.

For additional context, Star Trek Online and Champions Online didn't have lockboxes until Perfect World bought Cryptic Studios, then they suddenly appeared immediately after that acquisition.
I was told it was because Perfect World ordered Cryptic to make it happen, because they wanted it to be done.