I just found this report on a Hasbro factory. This is where some of our TF are made.
Kinda expected this bit its not a nice place. :mad:
issuu.com/iglhr/docs/hasbro/search/13
Printable View
I just found this report on a Hasbro factory. This is where some of our TF are made.
Kinda expected this bit its not a nice place. :mad:
issuu.com/iglhr/docs/hasbro/search/13
Probably standard Chinese factory etiquette...
It makes me sad reading that. So much of my happiness has been at the expense of slave labour. Hands up anyone who would want to sit at a cramped table for 11 hours a day, building 7 Transformers an hour, for about $1 an hour? If only there was some way of changing that situation.
(see, isn't this one of those situations that a UN should be addressing - protecting the rights and welfare of any disadvantaged people in the world... so that one country isn't taking advantage of others because they wouldn't be allowed to have slave labour in their own country)
This explains why Hasbro repeatedly refused my requests for some info or pics of the construction process (I've always been curious to see how these complex things are constructed, from start to finish).
It's a sad, but not surprising report. The western world is so dependant on cheap foreign "slave" labour, that economies would collapse if there were universal workers' rights and minimum wages... because we are so used to "cheap" imported goods, it now drives our economies (retail is apparently our biggest employment group, so imagine the reduced turnover of sales if we had to pay 10 times as much for the stuff that is imported - due to them being paid a tenth of what people here would be paid).
I remember a recent "off the record" comment from someone high up at Hasbro, talking about Mattel's manufacturing ethics and standards... either they are both as bad as each other, or Mattel is even worse... or propaganda within Hasbro isn't allowing too many employees realise how the company is managing to generate so much profit from such cheap product.
At least with buying Australian made where-ever possible (which isn't easy these days), there is less chance that what you are buying was produced with slave labour like this.
(we do have sweat shops in Australia, often from people taking advantage of migrant workers who either don't know their entitlements, or don't want to risk being deported... they are illegal and should be shut down)
The link doesn't work for me. :( However I remember Tiby posting this article from Choice magazine which showed Hasbro's ETI rating as - while certainly having room for improvement - being relatively okay by the standards of factories in developing nations.
Another alternative is to do what companies like Lego do and move their manufacturing to more developed countries (like Denmark, Germany, Croatia etc.) -- but then that would massively increase the cost of the toys... and even with the dirt-cheap Chinese labour, Transformers are expensive enough as it is. Makes you kinda wonder why Transformers are so expensive if their manufacturing costs are so cheap... (-_-)
It's only expensive outside of America and HK, thanks to the extra profit margin imposed on other Hasbro markets like ours. And keep in mind that Hasbro America is making billions each year of profit... funded by the huge gap between the price and the costs we now know.
Like if a Deluxe figure is about US$12 at retail in America, Hasbro is selling it for about $7-8 to the retailers (RRP is usually set at about 40% margin for profit and other costs). Take that same ratio for Australian Deluxe figures, a retail price of $25 here would mean about $14-16 pre-GST price to retailers here.
So if Hasbro America is already making $3-4 profit from their standard $7-8 price to America retailers for every Deluxe toy sold in America, every Deluxe toy in Australia would have to be earning Hasbro America an *extra* $8-10... which gives a total profit margin (up to $14 per figure) that is MORE than what Americans are paying for their Deluxe toys.
That's why the toys are disproportionately expensive here. And knowing how little Hasbro pays to make these toys (about $2 per Deluxe), makes it even more frustrating that we are forced to pay $25-30 here for that $2 Deluxe toy.
A followup on http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/12/...workers-china/
includes hasbro's response.
Now I don't feel guilting buying loose Star Wars figures for a buck, from people who slip them out of the factory!
i feel so bad for those guys and its not right but i'd find it hard not to buy TF's its something we all share the same passion for.
I remember reading some time ago that Slave labor is a lot more common today than what it was during colonial times when slaves were openly bought and sold.
I think that the only difference is that Slavery is now more subtle or 'masked' than it was before but it is still there.
Gee. I wonder if anyone is going to be going to bat for Hasbro's Intellectual Property in a certain thread after considering this. But I guess that's one of the advantages of working in some of these countries, where laws are flexible or absent of protections. Do you think Takara toys are made in the same factories, or just Hasbro? That would be one factor that would shift me completely to TakaraTomy products over Hasbro.Quote:
The Institute also draws irony from Hasbro’s allowance of a voluntary code for the conditions of labour, with the very strong legal remedies they enforce for copyright and trademark infringement.
Here is a link to the full report from the website reillyd provided:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/12/...-transformers/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Report Summary
It's not been pulled, you've just got to click on the pamphlet cover (its in the top right hand corner) to get the full thing in the link from the OP
Well considering that we pay at least double what the RRP should be, and that deep sales in the US sometimes have toys at 30-60% off that, I'd gladly pay a little more if it would ACTUALLY get to the workers. And I'd much rather they get the markup than distributors like HasbroAU. Heck, I'd probably be willing to donate a portion of my purchases to a charity that would pass it directly on to the workers. I suspect many collectors would. Since we have big budgets anyway, if we have just a few less plastic robots in our collection to know that we weren't preying on the misery of others, it wouldn't be such a bad thing.
Im still disgusted at how hasbro is doing this. I always said they had slaves but never anything like this. And this is just one place in china. What about Vietnam? Wonder what that factory is like.
If Takara make them in a better factory I should boycott Hasbro TFs. Makes me feel better about all the shonky loose figure deals over the years.
Would be happy if some of the money would actually go to the workers
As I read this, a few thoughts are going through my mind.
By buying Hasbro's products, in a sense I am contributing to this system of practice, because I demonstrate that I am fulfilling the supply that they generate.
(By the way, just to clarify, I don't say this as a way of judging people that buy TFs, I am only referring to myself personally)
China also needs to shoulder its fair share of responsibility. The nation overall has serious ethical / corruption problems at all levels of society. Its people are not valued as human beings. In such an environment, it is not surprising that workers are not afforded the rights that workers in other nations have.
I am struggling with whether to continue buying TFs. Although I only buy a few each year, when I do see a nice TF figure I usually buy it.
Hasbro's response
Quote:
Hasbro takes all claims involving working conditions very seriously, and we are immediately investigating. The Company has a strong track record and has had long-standing policies and processes in place for years to help ensure good working conditions, including health and safety, at factories making our products. We strive to conduct business throughout our supply chain in accordance with the highest ethical standards, and we utilize not only ICTI– but also our own on-the-ground workforce– to monitor social compliance. For more information about Hasbro’s comprehensive corporate social responsibility (CSR) activities, including more detail regarding Hasbro’s policies and practices related to ethical product manufacturing, please visit Hasbro.com/csr.
This is disgusting :mad:, but sadly not surprising :(
I agree that China has a lot to answer for... so does Hasbro. I was having this conversation with someone the other day, in regard to China's bad social and work practices.
I notice this hasn't been discussed on any other forum except here (at least at the time I'm writing this). Will be interesting to see what happens once it hits the international sites, and also what Hasbro's next move is. I will be following this closely.
Most of the goods we consume are made by "slave" labour in little more than concentration camps. Just a hard reality of a global marketplace.
You can take a moral stand & not purchase their products & only buy products that are ethically & sustainably sourced or you can not care & buy them anyway.
Forcing a cultural change from this dependency that western/developed countries have of the poorer countries cheaply produced goods, is something that will take time, but can happen.... just see how we now have things like "free range" (a response to caged animals), and "ethical" coffee, tea and chocolate (a response to western corporations taking advantage of the desperate impoverished people in developing nations, who's governments use them as mere commodities instead of as citizens or people).
The competing Global fan forums probably don't want to highlight it or front-page it as news, in case Hasbro cuts them off, and they are then at a disadvantage to the other sites.
I was reading through the comments on TFW2005, and there was talk about it not being Hasbro's fault (as in, it is okay to be blissfully ignorant of what goes on in factories they don't own, as long as they get their product in the end), as well as justifying it as being in the best interests of those being exploited (because they have a job, no matter how bad it is).
Both are true, but the point people are making here (and are most disgusted by) is that Hasbro are making $500 million profit each year, with its Exec earning $23million, but don't want the people creating that profit, earn anything more than a $1 an hour, or make sure that they have clean living & working conditions.
Yes, a lot of those workers are desperate for any employment, and would be worse off without the factory job, but should we be happy with squalled living & working conditions, or question why their own government would allow its people to be exploited... not to mention, leaving western corporations unchecked, to employ people in a manner that they wouldn't be allowed to in their own country.
Conversely, for all we know, Hasbro/Tomy have made sure that those working & living conditions are actually better than other factories. It may not be worth boasting about, but unless we find out that this is normal or worse than other Chinese factories, we may just have to give Hasbro/Tomy the benefit of the doubt on this. (remember, Hasbro uses Tomy to find and contract these chinese factories - so Hasbro aren't as directly responsible as Tomy or the factory owners are)
Ultimately, the whole concept of outsourcing (or privatisation, when the government does it) causes these problems. Companies or entrepreneurs bid to win a contract, so the lower they go to win the contract, means less to spend on resources and employees.
In this case, we have factories in China & Vietnam bidding for these big toy contracts, and if one had to quote (say) $2 per Deluxe toy just to win the contract, then that is the rate that the factory owner is paid - and that's all the factory owner has available to spend to produce those products, as well as to end up with their own profit.
So if Hasbro were using a factory that was quoting $3 per unit, and another one said they could do it for $2 per unit (because they weren't wanting to pay their employees as much or provide good working conditions), what do you think the "bonus driven" execs would want to do to boost their own pay packet.
I'd much rather see companies share the success to all employees, not just the elite at the top of the pyramid... after all, if a business is successful enough to give the execs a double-digit percentage pay rise, it's a double standard to only give other people within the business (the lower level workers) a 2-4% pay rise that most get these days. The reverse would be worth asking as well - if execs claim to only be able to afford an extra 3% to their employees during wage negotiations, then they should be held to that same "affordability rate".
Yeah I know, it'd never happen. I guess I'm just too idealistic... :o
Also remember that living and working conditions/standards are different from the Western world. Looking at those photos, they just look typical of how a lot of places in China look like... I've seen worse. I've also seen better.
So while I'm not disagreeing that worker conditions should improve, we need to be careful not to use Western standards as a measuring bar... look at what conditions exist in an average Chinese factory and get them to lift their bar up to the standard for their country. I think that is a far more realistically achievable and sustainable goal.
And I hope that Hasbro pays for this through reducing their substantial profit margins and not passing the cost onto consumers. Corporations like Cadbury made a decision to use non-slave labour and absorbed the costs themselves for their Dairy Milk chocolates - choosing not to increase the cost of their products and passing the additional cost to consumers. I hope that Hasbro follows suit with this.
I don't even see how that's relevant... this notion/suggestion that just because Hasbro's factory may be lacking in work standards, that it justifies stealing from them?? (either in a physical sense, such as toys from factories, or intellectual sense) That's like saying, "That man underpays his workers. I'm gonna break in and steal his TV... justice!!" <---what?! :confused:
Stealing from Hasbro or encouraging stealing from Hasbro doesn't help improve working conditions for their factory workers. If you really want to take action you can do something like boycott their products (admittedly I can't do this :p), sign a petition, contact Hasbro directly and let them know how you feel (e.g. letter, email etc.) -- take more positive and/or proactive measures.
The idea of using the lack of standards in HasTak's factory to justify purchasing stolen or counterfeit goods seems utterly illogical and nonsensical to me.
I honestly don't think that was HasTak's motivation for basing their manufacturing in countries like China... the reason would be because of the very cheap labour costs. And this is something that China encourages, because it's a big source of their economic prosperity.
I've seen no evidence to show that HasTak were actively aware of the conditions in their Chinese factory -- even when they do inspections it's too easy for the bosses to cover things up. And to Hasbro's credit they have said that they are investigating these allegations -- which I think is a reasonable act at this stage.
Pretty sure it's the same factory.
Unfortunately all this is a reality of modern consumerism and the global economy. Economically the world is now one big nation with some countries serving as the factories and labour force and others as the raw resource providers and end consumers.
From this system, exploitation is bound to happen as not all nations place value in enforcing human rights and corporate culture is all about money not the morality of how that money is obtained.
It is a horrible amoral system but unfortunately the world now runs and depends on it and even if you actively choose not to support it by boycotting Hasbro, you are probably still contributing to the system by buying mundane things like shopping, tools and other products made in China. The only way not to contribute to it would be to give up society and go and live in the bush and of course that is not an option for most.
When it comes to the people in the international boards being apathetic or excusing Hasbro, that is to be expected. A lot of people have been brought up in very a centric consumerist culture and are very insular in their way of thinking. If working conditions were found to be like that in their own nation, they would be in uproar.
Certainly says A LOT about the integrity of those US sites doesn't it?!! :rolleyes:
Goes to show that they're exactly like many media outlets... they edit their news and only give out info they think we need to know (or only what they want us to know). Another reason why I don't interact on those sites anymore; it's pretty pathetic tbh.
I'm glad this site is not like that!
Similar (but not the same) as what's going on in our own country... take a look at QANTAS for example! I don't know how many of these CEOs justify the money they earn, let alone doing it on the back of "slave labour".
http://nicedisneyworld.com/disney-pic/robin-hood-18.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
#OCCUPYHASBRO
Anyone feel like camping out at Epping? :p
Of course the main differences being that:
1. Robin Hood stole from the rich and gave to the poor. When was the last time anyone here received free counterfeits from counterfeit manufacturers? Fansubbers create and distribute their works for free and stop fansubbing/distribution once licence is acquired by a company like ADV. I might understand KOers selling their products at a cost that just covers their manufacturing costs, but not making a profit - that's what a lot of fan artists do, like people who make/sell doujinshi. One example was Ichikawa Hirofumi who sold his Cybertron Chronicles comic at BotCon Japan 2000; the price calculated for him to break even and cover his costs... he had no intention of profiting. Takara then stepped in and ordered him to give his comics away for free which generated massive negative fan backlash against Takara because Ichikawa was clearly providing a product made by fans for fans (and also, it was his own original works and not a pirated product). Takara have since made amends by letting Ichikawa work with them on several projects. But as I understand it, KO toys are sold with a profit margin... so unless KO makers reduce the price of their toys so as to reduce their profits to around break even points (as is the case with doujinshi), then I really cannot see how they can take any kind of moral high ground. It puts them in the same boat as Hasbro -- people out to make a profit; and there's nothing necessarily wrong with this... but we do question profiteering when it comes at an unacceptable expense -- in the case of the allegations regarding Hasbro's factory, it's a human expense, in the case of KO makers, it's at the expense of intellectual property. Two wrongs don't make a right.
2. The Sherriff of Nottingham consciously knew and permitted his practices to worsen the lives of the people. So far it doesn't seem apparent that Hasbro were consciously aware that these questionable practices were happening, and to Hasbro's credit, they did say that they will investigate (whereas please for the Sherriff to help people fell on deaf ears).
3. The story of Robin Hood is about an uprising against corrupt authority - much like say the Rebel Alliance or the movements we saw in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya recently. Hasbro may be a big toy corporation... but they're hardly a government. But I understand that corporations do have massive influence over governments... hence the suggestion to #occupyHasbro. If I were a single dude without needing to worry about a family... I'd seriously consider pitching a tent in Epping (or Pawtucket Rhode Island if I lived around there).
Could Hasbro have been more proactive rather than reactive? Absolutely... but it's not like they're ignoring the problem and doing nothing about it.
don't think anyone said a thing about ko stuff gok.
Yes we know it's horrible and harsh what these workers endure to make us our beloved toys, and we do wish somehow they are better off - but at the end of the day, i.e. realistically, do we care enough and are willing to dedicate ourselves to changing these conditions?
We could somehow contribute to having toys being made in much better circumstances, but if in that situation the costs arise would we be willing to pay higher prices at our expense?
Some of us would, some of us won't. It's one of the odd ways how societies and the values they hold works.
Slave labouring has been around forever unfortunately and though we would like to think we can put an end to it, it's much, much easier said than done.
I don't know a solution to this problem, but in the meantime I guess the best I could do is to take greater appreciation for all the toys I have. We do live in a very privileged side of the world after all...
Hey boys and girls,
Here is a pdf link to the complete report. I downloaded it a few days ago before it got removed.
http://www.globallabourrights.org/ad...-by-Hasbro.pdf
Simplified overview (for more detail, please review the actual posts themselves):
Post #9: reillyd said he feels less guilty now for buying cheap toys stolen from Hasbro's factory.
Post #12: reillyd said he wondered if anyone was going to continue supporting Hasbro's IP considering the recent allegations regarding their factory workers.
Post #24: I said that I didn't see the logic behind this - i.e. how Hasbro having poor factory employee standards justifies stealing from Hasbro. Two wrongs don't make a right.
#29: kup responded with his post of Robin Hood.
#31: you implied agreement with this analogy.
#32: I discussed the differences between the analogy and what's actually happening here with Hasbro (and those who choose to steal their property for profit).
Likewise those who steal toys from factories sell them later at profit. When I was in China I found one collectable toy store that sold out-of-factory DotM toys for close to what we would pay here for the toys MOSC! Although hopefully if working conditions/wages in Hasbro's factory improved it may discourage workers from stealing in the first place... they probably do it to make more money to supplement their paltry wages/conditions.
Again, I really hope that if this happens Hasbro won't pass the cost onto consumers. Considering the massive profit margins Hasbro already makes on these toys, they should be able to absorb the costs without passing it onto customers. After all, we see chocolate manufacturers improve the ethical standards of their cocoa harvesting without increasing the cost of their chocolates (the companies having publicly admitted that they are absorbing the added costs themselves).
I wouldn't just be thinking about your TF collection. Look around your house at all the plastic appliances and knick-knacks you have that are made in China and cost a lot less than they should. We're all pretty good at blinding ourselves to the evil we perpetrate every time we buy a cheap toaster or kettle. It's like the defense that sickos who look at kiddie porn use, 'I didn't abuse the kid personally so it doesn't count'. But the kids are abused in the first place because the market exists. We buy these cheap items in the first place and continue to buy these things. It's our fault, there's no way around it. It's the failing of a capitalist society.
I wouldn't worry about having to do anything about it as such, China is close to hitting critical mass in terms of population/food supply/power supply. When that happens and the rapid expansion stops, things will change. Big companies may look to other developing nations for a time, but it won't last long. Boycotting Hasbro will only mean something if you're prepared to forgo all the other items in your house bought so cheap.
People talk about Hasbro being proactive rather than reactive, but in the history of society this just doesn't happen. No country or company ever does anything until after a critical event happens. Germany built up military equipment and personnel and marched them right to the French border in complete breach of the existing treaties. No one did a thing until they rolled through Belgium. We've been talking about ozone layers, el ninos and global warming since the early 80's, and only now talking about doing something.
We're the mouse that keeps coming back to the electrified cheese.
I wonder what the cost of a deluxe TF would go up to if they moved production back to the US, or improved conditions and wages in asia? Would you be willing to pay $35 - $40 for a deluxe TF? Add to that the rising cost of oil and it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect a $50 price tag in the next decade.
Your TFC Hercules suddenly doesn't seem so expensive.
Note that my post with Robin Hood was in direct response to what you said (which is quoted on the same post).
What you basically said there is the reason why figures such as Robin Hood are admired. However there may not be a Robin Hood in this situation but Hasbro (along with several other US corporations) do behave like Prince John or the Sheiff of Naughtingham not through direct evil but outright amorality and selfishness.
What the Sheriff wanted was to fill up his coffers without any regard for how this action was affecting their peasant class. Hasbro is pretty much doing the same thing and I am pretty sure that their 'we'll investigate' is pure PR. Once this blows over it will be 'business as usual'.
Exactly. Both classic and modern economics advocate that the only purpose of companies is to profit; and corporate value lies in the maximization of shareholder value, which is the residual profit anyway. Performances of executives and staff and share prices are all linked to revenue increase and cost reduction. Those executives are brought up in an economic morale and profit is their only belief; whoever even tries to uphold social responsibilities (beyond what their local legislation requires) would never end up climbing to their executive chairs in the first place.
And yes, to be fair, indeed the Hasbro factories' working conditions are far from the worst in China. Nor is Foxcom for Apple, whose product many of us cannot live without, and whose workers are not opting for suicide only because they were forced to sign the agreement to no compensation. White collar workers in China are nowhere near better off; >18hrs of continuous stressful work per day that last for most months of the year has caused death rate among young people aged 22 to 35 to soar, and they are not getting paid one extra cent for putting their blood into their work.
Yes there is legislation and all that. But what choice do you have when there are one billion population (with 8 million fresh uni graduates each year adding to the ever growing work force) fighting their life for far less jobs, there's always someone who's willing to kill both you and themselves to get the job? Let alone say the whole system is bureaucratic and inefficient and rotten as hell. Western companies are shifting manufacturing to Vietnam as China has gradually becoming slightly more expensive; and the whole nation's (not just the government) mentality is to maintain the current high GDP growth rate at ANY cost.
For someone who's born and raised in that very country, I know the origins of problems and difficulties of changes there. It'll sure evolve over time; but that's a historical process taking place in hundreds of years. China boasts that it's leaped the historical process in 50 years; it has not. No country ever can. Simply applying the western way wouldn't help in a country like that, as its government is only one of the product of its most original problems, but not the origin itself.
For the near future that's relevant to our life, I see no way out of the problem, peaceful or not.