DOTM - not excited? [possible spoils]

[loophole]

Even just within the movie universe it's a contradiction. As I said, TF1 Prime showed compassion -- he only killed Bonecrusher as he was fighting him (i.e. it was NOT an execution), and he expressed regret that Megatron died at the end. Prime's attitude in Shanghai flies against what we saw in Mission City. Is it the same Optimus Prime?

as goki and others have pointed out like in the above situations in TF1 and TF2 time has passed between the two events and who knows what has happened to prime and his mindset in that time especially in times of war it can change people alot, thats the way i see it anyway

anyway i'll go see DOTM my expectations will be low but as long as its better than TF2 i'll be happy although it shouldnt be that hard to surpass

[shokwave2]

As Doubledealer said, this isn't a G1 remake. Try to forget what you know. G1 Optimus isn't the same as Movie Optimus. The audience came to see an action movie. If the Autobots didn't fire a bullet and took every decepticon they encountered hostage, or let them go, it would be a pretty boring movie.

The first movie taught everyone (the general public) that Autobots = good, Decepticons = bad. They fought on Cybertron and they'll fight here. If you haven't liked the way the Autobots presented themselves in the last movie, then you sure won't like the next movie. Take no prisoners.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

See, I didn't like the 1st Bay movie and haven't seen RotF besides the chase and execution scene, but I am quite looking forward to DotM. Why?
For the toys.
RotF was, by all account, a craptastic movie for all the reasons listed here and more, but it gave us some awesome toys. Ransack/Divebomb, Ejector (I mean, a toaster TF? How cool is that?), Full-o'-guns Ironhide, Bludgeon (well, sorta), Brawn, the Ice-cream twins (the characters might suck but an ice-cream truck alt-mode is pretty sweet) - while they're mostly non-movie characters we did get a few gems out of this. Add to this some of the Leader-class ones I haven't picked up like Buster Prime and Leader Starscream and it's been a pretty decent toyline. I'd still prefer Animated or Classicsverse anyday and Prime looks rather interesting, but RotF still gave us a sweet haul of plasticy goodness.
And from what we've seen so far DotM is going to be even better. If we have to suffer another crappy Bay movie to get a sweet snowmobile scout, or a new Powerglide, so be it says I. I just hope the movie is even worse so I can get really smashed one day and laugh at it.

[GoktimusPrime]

What exactly was Prime's choice? It's not like Demolisher had an "off" switch. If Prime didn't kill him, someone else would have to, lest he continue demolishing things!

"You left me no choice brother." - Optimus Prime (Transformers, 2007)

Again, a simple line to indicate that he regretted this action would have helped make this clear to the audience. The way it was portrayed arguably almost made it look like Prime was revelling in the task at hand. As Paulbot pointed out, the comic adaptation of ROTF handled this better.

As Doubledealer said, this isn't a G1 remake. Try to forget what you know. G1 Optimus isn't the same as Movie Optimus.

Fine, but even if we ONLY looked at Movie Prime we can still see contradictions. In the first movie Optimus Prime expressed deep regret over the fact that Megatron was killed in the Mission City battle. He killed Bonecrusher in the middle of combat, NOT as an execution. Thus to see Optimus Prime execute Demolishor in ROTF contradicts the way that Prime was portrayed in the first movie.

The audience came to see an action movie. If the Autobots didn't fire a bullet and took every decepticon they encountered hostage, or let them go, it would be a pretty boring movie.

I don't see how any of that justifies the execution. All they needed to do was have him say something like, "I wish there was another way," and then shoot Demolishor. The audience still gets the gratification of seeing Prime pop a 'con, and at the same time not be concerned about seeing a massive contradictory shift in the character.

Remember that it's character development that drives a story. Crappy character development = crappy story-telling (re: narrative).

The first movie taught everyone (the general public) that Autobots = good, Decepticons = bad. They fought on Cybertron and they'll fight here.

So what? See my previous analogies about Adolf Hitler and Saddam Hussein.

If you haven't liked the way the Autobots presented themselves in the last movie, then you sure won't like the next movie. Take no prisoners.

You must be a big fan of Dai Atlas then. Actually, I like Dai Atlas too... there's nothing wrong with the "take no prisoners" policy per se... prior to the Middle Ages it was standard practice to either slaughter POWs or make them into slaves.

What irks me here though is the character-contradiction. If I saw G1 Dai Atlas mercilessly slaying Decepticons, okay fine - I can accept that. That's a long established character trait (even if most Japanese fans hate him for it)... but considering that in TF1 we saw OP say stuff like "Freedom is the right of ALL sentient beings" (not just Autobots) and then "You left me no choice, brother" -- it strongly establishes OP as this compassionate character who regrets the use of violence and lethal force (and only does so out of necessity). TF1 also portrayed OP as one who utterly refused to sacrifice his high moral values, as seen with his plan to unite the AllSpark with his own Spark should he fail to stop Megatron. The OP we saw in Shanghai felt like a completely different character. An OP who's willing to execute a defeated Decepticon foe would surely NOT hesitate to shove the AllSpark into Megatron's chest himself, let alone express regret after Sam had done it.

Also, even if Movie Optimus Prime is a different character from other Optimus Primes, if Michael Bay had respect for the character and the franchise he would be mindful of what the character is meant to be. Imagine how Batman fans would feel if they made a movie where Batman packed heat and just shot the baddies like the Punisher. The Dark Knight would have turned out a lot differently if he'd just shot the Joker. You could argue that ya know, it's a movie franchise so it's a different universe blah blah blah, but I can bet you a LOT of Batman fans would be urinated.

[Bartrim]

Really Gok comparing Hitler and Hussein to Transformers?

You don't think you are over analysing this a touch?

[GoktimusPrime]

Hells no!

Anyway...

For example, if Allied Forces had managed to capture Hitler, would they execute him on the spot or arrest him so that he can stand trial for war crimes and crimes against humanity?

It's like say when Coalition forces found Saddam Hussein in hiding... imagine if the soldiers who found him decided to execute him there and then.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

What irks me here though is the character-contradiction. If I saw G1 Dai Atlas mercilessly slaying Decepticons, okay fine - I can accept that. That's a long established character trait (even if most Japanese fans hate him for it)... but considering that in TF1 we saw OP say stuff like "Freedom is the right of ALL sentient beings" (not just Autobots) and then "You left me no choice, brother" -- it strongly establishes OP as this compassionate character who regrets the use of violence and lethal force (and only does so out of necessity). TF1 also portrayed OP as one who utterly refused to sacrifice his high moral values, as seen with his plan to unite the AllSpark with his own Spark should he fail to stop Megatron. The OP we saw in Shanghai felt like a completely different character. An OP who's willing to execute a defeated Decepticon foe would surely NOT hesitate to shove the AllSpark into Megatron's chest himself, let alone express regret after Sam had done it.

Maybe it was an evil clone Prime Problem style. Possible plot thread for DotM!

Also, even if Movie Optimus Prime is a different character from other Optimus Primes, if Michael Bay had respect for the character and the franchise...

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Really Gok comparing Hitler and Hussein to Transformers?

You don't think you are over analysing this a touch?

Y'know, I've never seen Goki and Megan Fox in the same room at the same time...hmm...

[GoktimusPrime]

Y'know, I've never seen Goki and Megan Fox in the same room at the same time...hmm...

No need to get jealous.




There's plenty of Goki to go around.

[Demonac]

So much over-analysing of what is essentially a 2 hour advertisement for:
1. The US military,
2. G.M. &
3. Hasbro Transformers (in that order).

[kurdt_the_goat]

This comic springs to mind whenever i see discussions like this