Are Gestalts Stupid?

[LordCyrusOmega]

I'm far from an expert when it comes to gestalts but don't the minds of the components merge into one with each one contributing something diffrent to the personality? Or is each individual robot still concious? If so being a leg component would be like playing stacks on with a train.

The BW combiners come across as more together and someone has already mentioned that Magnaboss would be a fairly well centred combination of his components. But Silverbolt would have existing knowledge of how chaotic combination would be. Wouldn't this hinder the mind meld? Like watching a movie with someone who has already seen it and pre-empts the entire thing.

[GoktimusPrime]

Yeah, generally the minds merge into one. Remember that the German word Gestalt itself means "the whole is greater than the sum of the parts." ("Boy, those Germans have a word for everything!" - Homer Simpson)

Physically we can see that this is probably true. For example, Devastator can probably exert more force than all the Constructicons combined... e.g. if you told the Constructicons to try to break through an armoured structure with their bare hands, they could keep punching and probably break their arms. Yet Devastator can just plow his fingers through - as seen in Transformers The Movie.

Mentally this is true for Computron who's probably able to calculate solutions to problems faster and more accurately than say if we put the Technobots into a conference room and asked them to discuss a solution together. Afterburner would probably lose patience pretty quickly and throw a chair.

[Golden Phoenix]

But Silverbolt would have existing knowledge of how chaotic combination would be. Wouldn't this hinder the mind meld? Like watching a movie with someone who has already seen it and pre-empts the entire thing.

I think it would be an advantage.
His prior knowledge would help him mediate betweel Ironhide and Prowl. He can forsee potential problems or conflicts and help avoid them.

[LordCyrusOmega]

I remember reading in a guide book (it's downstairs and i can't be bothered going down to check the title) that Devestator was the first to successfully operate when combined though at the cost of intelligence. After Autobots got a hold of the process they were able to refine it giving the gestalt a more fluid mental state.

This could be why Decepticon gestalts seem lower on the inteligence scale then the Autobots

[GoktimusPrime]

This was certainly the case in Dreamwave continuity. In G1 comic continuity Devastator was the first gestalt, and the Autobots created their own when Bumblebee scanned Devvie - although I don't recall G1 stating that Devastator was emotionally unstable because he was the first gestalt (more to do with the conflicting minds of the individual Constructicons -- after all, Marvel did also write the early G1 tech specs).

In Dreamwave continuity Defensor was more mentally stable than Devastator, but still a whack-job in his own right, and the Protectobots quite disliked combining to form Defensor -- only doing so as a last resort. In fact, there was a kind of arms race between Autobots and Decepticons to build gestalt teams and ultimately the Crisis Intervention Accord was signed which rendered gestalt special teams as being unaligned. The gestalt technology appeared to have been somewhat refined later on, as Defensor seemed much more mentally stable several millenia after the Battle at Tagan Heights.

[LordCyrusOmega]

In Dreamwave continuity Defensor was more mentally stable than Devastator, but still a whack-job in his own right, and the Protectobots quite disliked combining to form Defensor -- only doing so as a last resort. In fact, there was a kind of arms race between Autobots and Decepticons to build gestalt teams and ultimately the Crisis Intervention Accord was signed which rendered gestalt special teams as being unaligned. The gestalt technology appeared to have been somewhat refined later on, as Defensor seemed much more mentally stable several millenia after the Battle at Tagan Heights.

That was in War Within wasn't it?

I've only seen combiners in the tv series (none of the comics I own have combiners) so I ca(No i do have the War within issue that came with the Univere 2.0 Dirge Vs Roadbuster but Devestator didn't say much and the Protectorbots just combine-end scene) so I cant comment on the comics but they all seemed reasonably stable in the cartoons.

Devestator was even able to have a conversation (The Core - Season 1) and reason so he can't be that stupid.

[GoktimusPrime]

Judging from your description I suspect your guidebook may be referring to Dreamwave comic continuity.

When it comes to the G1 cartoon "continuity" is a word that is used rather loosely. Devastator's origins are quite confusing and contradictory in the cartoon... first we see Megatron state that the Decepticons constructed them on Earth. Then later we see the Constructicons on ancient Cybertron as Autobots or possibly neutrals - but friends with Omega Supreme until Megatron reprogrammed them as Decepticons. Then later we see the Constructicons build Megatron in Cybertron's distant past. W h a t t h e s c r a p ? ?

So yeah... I personally don't put much stock in cartoon "continuity" and much prefer the comic books which were relatively more cohesive.

[LordCyrusOmega]

The origins of the Constructions in Cartoon continuity can be easily streamlined if you do the following:
When Megatron says "You are worth the time i spent building you" just add the prefix Re to build.
So
Megatron: You are worth the time i spent rebulding you"
And everything falls into place.

The guide I have goes through all the comics from G1 to dreamwave. Theres actually a chapter on Dreamwave. It's The Ultimate Guide by D&K (I think they are the publishers)

[klystron]

I thought Abominus was supposed to be so stupid that if he was organic he'd barely be able to breathe on his own?

[GoktimusPrime]

The origins of the Constructions in Cartoon continuity can be easily streamlined if you do the following:
When Megatron says "You are worth the time i spent building you" just add the prefix Re to build.
So
Megatron: You are worth the time i spent rebulding you"
And everything falls into place.

I can just imagine you doing your own retcon dub of the G1 cartoon

Megatron (Frank Welker): "They were worth the time we spent..."
<video pauses but audio track continues>
Megatron (LordCyrusOmega's voice): "..re..."
<normal video and audio track resumes>
Megatron (Frank Welker): "...building them in these caverns!"

Reminds me of that episode of The Simpsons when they opened Kamp Krusty:
Krusty The Clown: "Say hello to..."
(another voice): "Mister Black."