The Great War - What's it all for?

[GoktimusPrime]

Would you consider this to be the point that The Great War began? Or when they awaken from the Ark, as Blackarachnia states?

The Great War began when the Decepticons started attacking the Autobots. In the G1 cartoon the war started when Megatron led a group of Decepticons to steal Energon and one of the casualties of that attack was a worker named Orion Pax... who of course was rebuilt as Optimus Prime. David Wise thought it'd be cool if the first shot fired that started the war resulted in the "birth" of Optimus Prime.

Blackarachnia's knowledge of Cybertronian history isn't entirely accurate anyway - for instance, if you watch her flashback the Decepticon crew of the Nemesis never board the Ark and attack the Autobots from the inside, instead we see the Nemesis firing upon the Ark -- much like the fight that brought down the Axalon and Darksyde. But this was inaccurate because as soon as Megatron entered the Ark we see Autobots and Decepticons lying about in stasis - just as in G1. And of course, Megatron later broke into the Ark to abduct G1 Megatron's Spark from G1 Megatron's body inside the Ark, and not the Nemesis.

Blackarachnia: "I'm a saboteur, not a historian!"
All right all right, calm your web...

Foundation #2: Optimus's telling of the old Cybertron myth:

"I knew the legend of the Allspark. When the cube crashed into Cybertron, it gave the spark of life to Primus, and his descendants...the Primes.

It may have referred to the first Cybertronian being created as being called Primus, but not necessarily the god Primus. Primus as a god was created by the universal source - and Primus is a multiversal singularity, so this must hold true in all TF continuities.

As you said, the story is a myth so it's hard to know exactly how much of it is valid. After all, in G1 even Primus himself was thought to be a myth for a long time, and Cybertronians stopped believing in him until Bumblebee, Jazz, Grimlock, Red Hot, Seawatch, Fixit and Stakeout were accidentally transported to Primus' chamber deep within Cybertron!

"Then, the stories go, the Allspark provided the Primes with a workforce of Transformers -- life forms capable of changing their shapes."

Yup. This the original Primes (and possibly the other 6 original Cybertronians) themselves were unable to transform, but subsequent Cybertronians created to serve them were able to transform. That would also explain why the Fallen never transforms in Revenge of the Fallen.

It was stated to be 13 original Primes in ROTF Movie Adaptation but somehow the actual movie came out as 7.

Yep, thus it is officially 7 Primes, irrespective of what predating versions may have stated (because the film would have retconned the 13 as 7, thus rendering the 13 Primes origin as incorrect). The film retcon makes more sense too IMO, cos otherwise as I said, if EVERY Transformer were descendant from a Prime, then they would all be Primes and not just Optimus! Cos otherwise it'd be like...

Optimus: "Hey guys guess what? I found the Mark of the Primes on my left ear! It means I'm a descendant of the Dynasty of the Primes! Now I'm Optimus Prime!"

Ironhide: "Good for you. I have the same Mark on my left butt cheek. Call me Ironhidimus Prime."

Wheelie: "An' I gots the same Mark on my crotch! Cawl me Crotchimus Prime!"

Optimus: "Why not Wheelimus Prime?"

Wheelie: "Cos dat'd be stoopid, stoopid!"

Optimus: "......."

ROTF Movie Adaptation #3: Jetfire was telling Sam the stories of the Fallen. He said:

"Only a Prime can stand against the Fallen. The war on Cybertron destroyed the Prime Dynasty. All were slaughtered save one. An orphan, hidden away, ignorant of his destiny..."

Sam said: "Optimus Prime."

Jetfire: "You know him?"

......

Damnit...

Okay, I'd say that orphan was probably Sentinel Prime - he might have been ignorant of his destiny at first, then later found out about it - just like Optimus. After all, if he grew up with no other Primes around, then it's possible.

Reasons to support this:
+ Sentinel Prime can transform, unlike the original 7 Primes.
+ The original 7 Primes all died, save for the one who became the Fallen - who eventually died from shame (loss of face ).

It's possible that Jetfire never knew the name of this orphan and so when Sam mentioned "Optimus Prime" he may have assumed that it was that orphan whereas in fact he is the orphan's descendant.

My doubt is more on how Sentinel Prime could be there in the first place, seeing that the Fallen has already slaughtered all the Primes save one orphan, who is not Sentinel or Sentinel's antecessor...

That's why I like to believe that the orphan may have been Sentinel Prime.

Foundation #2: Optimus telling his memory: "When Sentinel Prime found me -- alone and hidden -- he brought me into his home and told me these legends."

Again, this doesn't contradict my theory. Optimus may have been a "lost boy" which Sentinel later found and nurtured...

My doubt here: if the Fallen has slaughtered all the Primes save one orphan, who had the ability to place him in his "sarcophagus" then?

Remember in Tales of the Fallen #4, the Fallen was killing his Prime brothers on earth in order to seize the Matrix. He's successfully killed all but one; that last Prime jumped around on teleportation to gather "the sum total of The Dynasty, the entirety of their lifeforce" and thereby gave the Fallen a last blow to "banish him forever". The Fallen crash landed on what looks like an icy frozen planet far away and swore revenge.

Having successfully "banished" the Fallen, what happened to this one last Prime according to Jetfire's account in ROTF Movie Adaptation #3:

"He (the Fallen) butchered his brother Primes, until only one remained. The last of the twelve sealed the Matrix in a tomb constructed of their remains, fusing it shut with his own life essence."

Which means he, being the last Prime, died. So who was there left to later put the Fallen away to his sarcophagus?

The Fallen was already banished just before the last Prime sacrificed himself to create the Tomb of the Primes.

- Who gave life to Sentinel Prime? and

Sentinel as the orphan would explain this.

Optimus: "I wonder why there was only one intact."

Ratchet: "I think the broken ones were deliberatedly smashed."

Question: if the Fallen's already in captivity, who smashed everything of the Primes back to the end of the Prime Dynasty?

I thought Megatron smashed them after he took the Fallen's sarcophagus. <shrug>

Is this the story line of the Madman G1 cartoon, or the Marvel comics, or the UK version, or something else?

Like Paulbot said. Also, the G1 cartoons were made by Sunbow, not Madman. Madman merely distributed the series here in Australia - and even then their episodes were copied off another DVD company called Rhino.

I know I've only watched 5 episodes of the Madman series and probably know only a tip of the iceberg but based on the tip I've studies so far it goes as simple as:

Evil decepticons and the valiant autobots, war over energon, crash landing on earth, four millions years ago...

A rather simplistic but otherwise accurate summary. But you were saying that the movie origin story "is one of the best TF stories ever written despite its logical flaws" -- I personally don't think it's as well structured as the G1 comic origin story(stories) and in terms of overall writing, I find the G1 comics and Beast Wars to be better written anyway.

More importantly, where does Optimus Prime's trailer go when he transforms to robot mode?

Years ago there was a photocomic printed in ToyFare magazine that explained this...
* Image of Prime's Trailer lifting weights at the gym
* Image of Prime's Trailer crowd surfing at a baseball game
* Image of Prime's Trailer and He-Man throwing dollar bills at pole-dancing strippers
...so now you know.