Quote Originally Posted by Cat View Post
I do count SeaSpray, yes, so does Hasbro, and so would a LOT of potential newbies reading this list.

Yes, this is the bias comes from, from every person (obviously myself included), but for SeaSpray, we have Word Of God from Hasbro, and IDW G1 appearances.
Hasbro sometimes counts Sea Spray as G1. Other times they count him as Movieverse as evidenced by his tech specs bio -- written by Hasbro!

And IDW comics have also placed Sea Spray in movie continuity too - re: "United For The Universe" #2, Chapter 3 "Bludgeon's Revenge".

Two canonical sources that place Sea Spray in the movie universe. The main supporting evidence for Sea Spray has come from Hasbro Q&A. Also, please refresh my memory -- precisely which IDW issue did Sea Spray appear as a G1 character?

Anyway, the fact remains that there are official sources which direct Sea Spray as G1 and as movieverse... so it seems that the "Word of God" (as you put it) is rather contradictory on this issue.

Quote Originally Posted by Cat View Post
If you're not counting him, then we should get rid of Ratchet and Ironhide, who don't look much like THEIR original toys either...
Irrelevant. Sea Spray and Bludgeon's dubious status has nothing to do with their visual aesthetics, but more to do with how official sources have classified these toys. e.g. Bludgeon has clearly marketed Bludgeon as a ROTF toy - however the argument of authorial intent can make his classification dubious. Sea Spray has been marketed as a movieverse toy (though not as clearly as Bludgeon - remember that the tech spec bios are part of the toy's marketing) -- both characters have also been portrayed as being part of the movie universe by officially sanctioned continuity, however again the argument of authorial intent can create ambiguity, and in Sea Spray's case, also comments from Hasbro Q&A also creates further dispute.

Universe/Henkei Ironhide and Ratchet on the other hand have - AFAIK - never had any canonical material that places them outside of the Neo-G1 continuity (e.g. putting them in movieverse continuity). In fact, the Henkei! Henkei! manga series (two different series) places them in Neo-G1 continuity. I've yet to see any canonical or marketing material or statement from HasTak that states otherwise and contradicts this. If you can show me such material then I will consider reclassifying them.

Quote Originally Posted by Cat View Post
Lugnut and Drift also have the Generations manga that was commissioned by TakTom. This firmly places Drift and Lugnut in Classicsverse, along with Grapple, etc.
I was never disputing this. Please re-read my comment about these characters again.

Quote Originally Posted by Cat View Post
Opinion is one thing, but you're ignoring multiple canonical sources here, along with what the wishes of the average collector would be:- to know that that SeaSpray exists, and is there as a viable upgrade for G1 SeaSpray, ala Powerglide, and is intended as such.
1. The wishes of any collector is based on personal bias. After all, a lot of fans believe in FIRRIB, yet it's technically incorrect for the toyline (and majority of G1 media) - including Classicsverse (United Frumble are RIRFIB).

2. As I've said before, if I wanted to ignore other people's opinions and multiple canonical sources, then I would never have bothered making the [?] category - instead simply choosing to classify Sea Spray and Bludgeon in the [-] category (which is how I personally categorise them). As I've said before, the entire reason why the [?] category exists is to cater for differing opinions.

Quote Originally Posted by fatbot View Post
Swerve has been updated into the classicverse, just into a radically different form.
http://www.tfu.info/2008/Autobot/Swerve/swerve.htm
Hmmm... TFwiki classifies this toy/character as part of Universe 1.0 and not Universe 2.0 -- I'm guessing this is because of the Universe 1.0 font they used on his instruction booklet.

Ummm... I'll classify him as [?]