Martial arts discussion thread

[GoktimusPrime]

I had a one on one training session with my Sensei and we got to talking about when I could realistically achieve black belt status and I asked him about these definitions and he said although these may be the translation, it doesn't actually relate to our belt rankings as it would seem pretty stupid for a "beginner" to have his own academy.

Yet it happens in a lot of schools. There are a LOT of martial art schools that allow even yellow belts to be the chief instructor of Dojos. (-_-)

The one on one session was great. Didn't realize some of the technical mistakes I was making eg: dropping my arm too far to perform an uppercut.

How do you mean by "dropping too far"? Because a dropped-arm uppercut is actually more traditional and practical from a self-defence POV than a raised arm uppercut (which is something used more in competition fighting like modern boxing).

A more traditional uppercut should look like this:
http://www.jowgashaolin.com/artwork/...w_uppercut.jpg <---Shaolin Kung Fu uppercut
Or this (from traditional boxing)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../Uppercut2.jpg <---traditional boxing (e.g. Queensberry boxing)
The punch is extended more outward with the head held back more. It sacrifices power but it keeps the head, neck and spinal cord protected.

A modern competition uppercut looks more like this:
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...risReuters.jpg <--modern boxing

The arm is raised up more and the head is closer to the punch. The advantage of this version is that it delivers more power to the punch, but compromises defence of the head, neck and spine. People can do this in competition fights because in comps it's illegal to do things like breaking the neck or striking the spinal cord. But of course, in a street fight there are no rules.

The more traditional uppercut is not as powerful as the competition version, but it's a lot safer because it doesn't put your head, neck and spinal cord in potential danger. There are MANY moves across various styles of martial arts that are designed to ensnare the neck and break it, and other moves which are designed to attack the spine (especially strikes to the upper vertebra). e.g.
http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/yxeSIxMXIxg/0.jpg
http://apittman.com/blog/wp-content/...2011/06/g2.jpg

Example of a spinal attack:
http://www.elite-fighters.com/traini...es/domlev5.jpg

While I'm of course not advocating that anyone should ever attack another person's neck or spine, from a self defence POV it's important to keep in mind that these moves do exist and there are people out there who are willing to use them - and as defenders we need to be wary and keep ourselves safe from such dangerous and lethal techniques.

The basic rule of thumb should be that your uppercut is high enough to reach and hit the target (which should be easier for you because you have fairly long arms ), but at the same time keeping your head and neck out of the opponent's reach.

[Bartrim]

The uppercut technique we are taught is for very close combat. We are taught to drop our stance and roll our shoulder as we step in and up and get the majority of our power from our legs. I know you have your criticisms over ducking/bobbing as you expose your spine but how long do you keep yourself down to allow that to happen? If your opponent throws a cross punch we drop, step in and roll our shoulder, rise up and hit an uppercut. Even with my sensei attacking and me performing the uppercut he didn't have the speed to hit me in the way you described. Dropping your arm too far with an uppercut exposes the side of your head to a hook punch... I learnt this the hard way, thankfully my sensei was only wearing mits.

[GoktimusPrime]

The uppercut technique we are taught is for very close combat. We are taught to drop our stance and roll our shoulder as we step in and up and get the majority of our power from our legs. I know you have your criticisms over ducking/bobbing as you expose your spine but how long do you keep yourself down to allow that to happen?

While I would agree that the technique works if you're fast enough execute the move without the person grabbing you and snapping your neck in the same move, I've been taught to always assume that my attacker is my superior - faster, stronger, better skilled... which makes sense for me since I'm a slow, weak and unskilled fighter. Even if I were strong and fast... there would always be someone out there who's stronger and faster.

Anyway, both the traditional and modern uppercuts have their pros and cons - traditional uppercut is weaker but less exposed, modern uppercut is stronger but more exposed, but as you said, you can compensate for it with speed (especially if you can implement plyometric "explosive ferocious" speed). So hey, if it works for you... go for it.

If your opponent throws a cross punch we drop, step in and roll our shoulder, rise up and hit an uppercut. Even with my sensei attacking and me performing the uppercut he didn't have the speed to hit me in the way you described.

Getting cross-punched wasn't my concern. Keep in mind that a lot of grapples are based on intercepting a strike, typically a punch (like an uppercut), then using the incoming force of that strike to ensnare and wrestle/grapple the attacker.

What I'm concerned about is, say you throw an uppercut and let's say your opponent is fast enough to counter or avoid your punch and simultaneously either:
a/ Put you in a headlock, thus in a position to easily snap your neck with little effort.
b/ Grapple you and put you into a submissive position where you're basically bent over, thus exposing your spine. They could even just grab the back of your head and push it down just a bit, thus would expose the back of your neck and upper spinal cord.

...when you're head is so close to your uppercutting arm, you've already done half the work for your opponent should they want to go for your neck or spine. This is why traditional fighting forms don't do it - not even old skool (mid 19th Century) Western Boxing. The modern uppercut is only something that's appeared in the 20th Century with the advent of modern sports boxing.

Dropping your arm too far with an uppercut exposes the side of your head to a hook punch... I learnt this the hard way, thankfully my sensei was only wearing mits.

There's easy ways to compensate for this:
1: Keep your rear hand guarding.
2: Abandon your attack entirely and go defensive or retreat, or if there isn't time for that...
3: You can use your shoulder to block/parry punches!

[Bartrim]

I'd like to compare notes with you person at a later date on this subject as I am on my iPhone and couldn't be bothered typing out a lengthy reply.

[GoktimusPrime]

S'cool. Probably easier just to talk about it IRL when we meet up next... it's always so hard to discuss this sort of thing with text only because I can't actually see exactly what you're doing and vice versa.

[Bartrim]

S'cool. Probably easier just to talk about it IRL when we meet up next... it's always so hard to discuss this sort of thing with text only because I can't actually see exactly what you're doing and vice versa.

Ha Ha yeah thats true. I had a huge argument with a friend on a NRL forum one day then the next time we saw each other IRL we realised we were actually talking about the same thing because of that very reason. It was quite funny and embarrassing

[Bartrim]

Yet it happens in a lot of schools. There are a LOT of martial art schools that allow even yellow belts to be the chief instructor of Dojos. (-_-)

Would this be like with GKR? I read on a martial arts forum that they run special instructor courses so they can have lower grades instruct yet still be a black and white belt. and thus open up more dojos.

[GoktimusPrime]

Would this be like with GKR? I read on a martial arts forum that they run special instructor courses so they can have lower grades instruct yet still be a black and white belt. and thus open up more dojos.

Yup.

GKR is also:
1) The most popular (most widely practised) martial art in Australia.
2) NOT an authentic Japanese or Okinawan style of Karate, it's Australian. If you go to Japan and mention GKR there, people will be like

I used to teach at this evening college and there was a GKR class that would started earlier than the evening college, so I would come in and watch the classes while waiting for evening college to commence. The instructor was one of those lower grade black and white belts - although at the time I had no idea what that belt colour meant. The funniest time was when he was sparring or doing drills with a student, and the student knocked him down -- he just fell on his back/bum -- NO attempt at _any_ kind of break fall or recovery technique... and this coming from an instructor that students are paying money to be taught by!

But I will give GKR credit for one thing: they are very good at teaching the bare basics of martial arts which is especially beneficial to someone who has _never_ done a martial art or any kind of sports or athleticism before (i.e. someone who has crap-house coordination). I find that Karate in general is quite good at building on core basic fundamentals -- but I find that GKR is especially good at it. But having said that, I have never been impressed with anything I've seen in GKR above beginner's level. Basically I would recommend GKR to someone who has problems with motor skills, coordination etc. -- but once they get those basic skills honed, I'm not sure if I'd recommend that they stay with GKR in the long run.

I used to train with this guy who was so badly uncoordinated that well, whenever he sparred he made Jar Jar Binks look like a graceful swan. I think the limit of his coordination skills was like... walking. He was trying to learn Baguazhang (8 Trigrams Palm) Kung Fu -- and he totally lacked the motor coordination to execute even the most basic moves in it... so I recommended GKR to him. I've lost contact with him since, so I have no idea if he took my advice or not.

I have sparred with GKR fighters twice:
+ First time was with a guy who was a relative beginner, and he was quite good - but then again, he also had extensive training in European martial arts prior to doing GKR Karate, so his fight skills weren't purely based on his GKR training. He had me pinned down using his much larger size to his advantage, so I grabbed his pony tail and yanked it - that got him off me pretty quick.
+ Second time was with a black belt - an instructor (although he was a student at a school of a traditional Okinawan Karate style)... I nearly ripped his janglies off... and again, this guy already had Okinawan Karate training on top of his GKR.

...so I've never sparred against a formidable opponent who was purely trained in GKR. And I'll be the first to admit that I'm NOT a good fighter (despite my athletic physique ), so if someone like me can beat these GKR guys, they really can't be that good... imagine how'd they go up against someone ya know... decent!

[Bartrim]

Speak of the devil.

I was walking through an arcade in Ulladulla today on my way to mail out statements and I see on a noticeboard that a GKR school has started up. I wonder how they will go.

[Bartrim]

About to go to my first lesson of "black belt club" which is an additional class for "students above the rank of orange belt who are serious about progressing to black belt. Class focuses on weapons and pressure points"

...

Should be fun... or painful.