Martial arts discussion thread

[Hot Rodimus]

Gok - I might be wrong but sometimes I think you get caught up in the 'romance' or 'mystic' side of Martial Arts. I can relate as when I used to study TMA I too was guilty of this until I broadened my horizons and gained 'practical hands on' experience and training. I say this as I wonder when you have seen or can share where monkey style, drunken style or capoeira has been used effectively. Personaly I see both as a hobby or dance with little use as the liklehood of pulling it off in a fight is extremely slim...I would say the same for trying to use it in decent hard contact sparring too.

I am wrong all the time though and always open to others experiences

[GoktimusPrime]

While Monkey Style and certainly Capoeira are certainly widely practised more as performance/dance styles, that doesn't mean that they're not necessarily effectual martial arts. It just means that they're not taught as effectual martial arts (so for the people who learn it that way, it doesn't work for them as a fighting style).

Personaly I see both as a hobby or dance with little use as the liklehood of pulling it off in a fight is extremely slim...I would say the same for trying to use it in decent hard contact sparring too.

In the way that Monkey Style and certainly Capoeira is taught in many schools, I'd say you're right. But if it's taught "properly" - i.e. in a "traditional" sense, then I see no reason why they cannot function as fighting styles. Monkey Style originates from ancient China, with some styles tracing their lineage to the Shaolin Temple. Capoeira traces its lineage back to African martial arts -- some of their high-to-low stancework is similar to what you may see in say Zulu fighting styles (but modified by slaves).

This video gives a basic demonstration of how real Monkey Style is supposed to work, as opposed to this video which shows Monkey Style Wushu, the highly stylised performance art which I reckon would be utterly useless in a fight. I had a lecturer at uni who studied Wushu in China, and he told me that while I was a lot of fun and great exercise, "If someone can use it in a fight, I'll eat my hat." I personally know someone, who's a decent fighter, but got beaten in a match against a Monkey fighter.

So yeah, it all depends on how it's taught/studied.

[GoktimusPrime]

If you're gonna practice no-contact fighting, you might as well do it in style!

.................................................. ....

On a different note, there was no Karate class today because of the long w/e, so I went to last Thursday's class instead. I quite enjoyed the lesson. Smaller class, more individualised attention. The instructor was a Sempai rather than a Sensei, but I actually prefer his teaching methodology a whole lot more than Sensei's! I'm seriously thinking about switching to Thursday nights, because it recently dawned on me that my Saturday mornings won't be free anymore from next year.

[Sinnertwin]

If you're gonna practice no-contact fighting, you might as well do it in style!

Energy Transfer! That's a legit art!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNAWff9Daqg

Oh, wait, it isn't...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMgVmFzBrus

[Bartrim]

If you're gonna practice no-contact fighting, you might as well do it in style!

We are so doing this at the next meet up

Energy Transfer! That's a legit art!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNAWff9Daqg

Oh, wait, it isn't...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMgVmFzBrus

I love those videos. Seen them plenty of times. You need to do a you tube search for George Dillman.

[Sinnertwin]

Oh, George... Somebody's been playing a bit too much Street Fighter.

[GoktimusPrime]

BUAHAHAHAHAHA!! I love the deadpan sarcastic Facebook "fan page" for Yanagi Ryuken - the description says:
"Grand Master of all fighting. This man of steel stands behind a nearly flawless 200-1 combat record. The single loss, as we all know, was attributed to blatant cheating (through actual physical contact) by the challenger."
^ROFL!!!

------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, when I started doing Goju Karate, I was given a handout that explains the basic stances and hand/arm strike techniques. The photos are incredibly grainy and of shocking quality, and there are some errors that I've noticed - some are minor semantic errors (e.g. Musubidachi being spelt "Mushubidachi"), but others are more ... well, confusing. And it's not just in this handout, but also in Dojo practice.

So here's where I need advice from those of you with greater Karate experience/knowledge than me.

(1) Uchihachi-dachi
Yeah, that's what the handout calls it, and it's what it's what they call it in Dojo... but I think it should be more accurately called Uchihachijidachi (i.e. inverted character eight stance), because the feet are aligned as if they're inside the Chinese character for "8" (hachi) which looks like this: 八. Also... is it just me, or does this stance feel the same as the basic "Wing Chun" stance? Incidentally, the proper name for what most people refer to as the Wing Chun stance is 二字箝羊馬 which means "character two gripping sheep-horse" stance. I personally think the Japanese name feels more intuitive to me as I just need to imagine my feet forming the Kanji for "hachi," but according to this site the Chinese name refers to using 2 legs to grip the back of a goat (the "horse" part, I guess, probably comes in as it's seen to be a variation of the Riding Horse Stance (since you would be in Riding Horse Stance if you pivoted your feet out 2 more times (heel-ball))), so it seems to have nothing to do with the shape of "two" in Chinese characters (二).
So my questions are: (a) should this stance more accurately be called "Uchihachijidachi", and (b) how does it compare with the Wing Chun stance?

(2) Shiko-dachi
The way that the handout describes it and the way that it's practised, it just feels like a Kibadachi (Riding Horse Stance). Kibadachi I'm familiar with, as we also use the Riding Horse Stance in Kung Fu/Tai Chi... but Shikodachi isn't a name that I'm familiar with. But it looks and feels just like Kibadachi. I once asked a black belt Sempai what the difference was, and he didn't seem to understand what a Kibadachi is. From what I can tell, it seems that the two stances are almost the same, but with the primary difference being the positioning of the feet -- Kibadachi being with both feet parallel, and Shikodachi being with feet pointed 45 degrees outward. So if I were to stand in Kibadachi and then bring my heels together to stand up straight, I'd be standing at attention, but if I were to stand in Shikodachi and do the same thing, my feet would form a right angle (i.e. I'd be in Musubidachi). Is this correct?
Some schools (like GKR) refer to this as the "Sumo stance," which is understandable as it is used in Sumo (though obviously not exclusively). Some translate it as the "straddle horse stance" (as opposed to riding horse stance - the "ki" (騎) in Kiba refers to cavalry). I've also noticed that the instructors at the Dojo call it "Square dachi" (or at least, that's how it sounds like to me). When I say "Shikodachi" Sempai doesn't understand me, then I slurred my pronunciation of "Shiko" so it kinda sounded more like "square" (so in the end I sounded like I was saying "tsukue," which means "desk" )... then he understood me. Again... I really don't get the point of using Japanese names for stuff in an Australian Dojo, especially if people are having trouble pronouncing it. Just call it "Square stance" or "Straddle stance." In the handout, on the page that shows photos of the stances, where it says "Shikodachi," there's a photo of someone doing a completely different stance. I don't know what that stance is, but it looks nothing like the Shiko dachi we do in the Dojo or as described anywhere. I suspect they stuck the wrong photo there.
So my question is: are my assumptions about the difference between Shikodachi and Kibadachi correct?

(3) Enpi & Hijiuchi
The handout and Dojo teaches/illustrates "enpi" (meaning "monkey elbow") as an upward elbow strike, and Hijiuchi (meaning "elbow strike") as an inward ridge-hand strike. Huh? Okay, the 'enpi' part I get... but "Hijiuchi" sounds like a synonym for enpi. If anything, enpi is a kind of hijiuchi. How does a ridge hand strike qualify as a "elbow strike"??
Question: isn't the ridge hand strike in Karate called the "Haitō-uchi" (背刀打ち)?
"Haitou" literally means "back blade strike," which I'm guessing is referring to the ridge of the hand as the "back blade", or some call it the "inside knife hand," as opposed to the "outside knife hand" which is 手刀 (shutō). Haitō, Shutō... makes sense to me. Btw, I've noticed that virtually everyone I've encountered mispronounces "shutō" as "shūtō" ("shoo-toh" or "shew-toh"). The "toh" part is fine, but the "shu" should be much shorter, like abruptly telling someone to "shush!", but without the final "sh" on the end. Or we could all just say "outside knife hand" in English!

So yeah, I'm planning on going to this Thursday's lesson (as I find the Thu instructor much more approachable than the Saturday Sensei) with the handout with my notes scrawled all over it. But if anyone can shed any light on this in the meantime, it'd be greatly appreciated.

[Bartrim]

BUAHAHAHAHAHA!! I love the deadpan sarcastic Facebook "fan page" for Yanagi Ryuken - the description says:
"Grand Master of all fighting. This man of steel stands behind a nearly flawless 200-1 combat record. The single loss, as we all know, was attributed to blatant cheating (through actual physical contact) by the challenger."
^ROFL!!!

I am a fan of this page. That is classic. I've tried every argument with my sensei about chi. I've tried the "Lets spar you use chi energy and I use physical force", I've tried the "If chi is a form of energy then there should be a scale of measurement". Everytime I bring up the myths he just pulls rank and changes the subject.

Over the Easter weekend there is a pretty big festival in Ulladulla with a street parade, the fishing fleet gets blessed, carnival rides etc etc. My Sensei put on a demonstration with some students on one of the stages. I participated in one part of it. He did a self defence demonstration with "volunteers" from the crowd. It was quite funny because seeing someone in street clothes as opposed to someone wearing a gi get thrown around really had the audience gasping in shock. I guess it gave it a more realistic feel which was the desired effect. Then he did board breaking. A couple of the young teenage loudmouth students got to break boards and thought they we heaps tough. Then Sensei broke some ice blocks so he asked the teenage students to get their broken boards and break them on the corner of the stage into smaller pieces so he could use them as spacers. This was the highlight of the day for me. These teenage kids constantly harrass me because I refuse to do any of that sort of stuff. So then they are banging these boards on the corner of the stage and nothing is happening. So I just went the full "Oh noes! Whats wrong? You could break dem before but not now WTF?!" After about 2 minutes of this (Sensei was doing weapon kata demonstrations during all this) I explained the physics to the kids and showed them the grain of the board and amazingly they were able to break them... I'm not sure if it was because I showed them about breaking with the grain or if their chi energy had recharged after breaking the boards earlier?... It was probably the latter

[Sinnertwin]

I tried moving a fridge using chi power. Looks like its back to George's dojo for me.

[Bartrim]

Damn UFC. Watching this season of The Ultimate Fighter and seeing Uriah Hall knock out Adam Cella in Episode 3 I have had to wait until Episode 11 to watch him fight again. After 2 months ther is only 1 more day to go and I can't wait. Also he is fighting one of the biggest d-bags in the house so I hope he destroys him.

Behold the beauty of the knockout

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_nkOyu201M