Martial arts discussion thread

[klystron]

Our free sparring is supervised and we are constantly reminded that there should little to no contact. However contact happens, especially between higher belts. We also wear shin pads, mitts, groin guards (not me though), and mouth guards. I know first hand about getting hurt during training. I have limped around at work the following day and would much rather have spent it at home in quite meditation. Or mucking about with TFs.

The fear training aspect is indeed much harder to train for. And I must admit we dont really cover much of that. Although as a yellow belt its pretty scary to spar against black belts!
I wonder if I might get our sensei to incorporate some of your ideas on fear training.

I have done a little board breaking work, with the re-usable boards and tiles. Its not real practical but it really does make you feel good. It makes you aware of certain aspects - are you focusing your power the way you should; are you using your hips to generate that power. I also like the feel of your fist actually hitting something hard. Again, if you're not doing things right, these exercises will let you know - like striking without straight wrist, etc.
Outside of that, its pretty much just a demo thing to impress on lookers and non-martial artists. Still fun though.

Never been attacked by a watermelon though...

Gok -- PM'ed.

[GoktimusPrime]

It makes you aware of certain aspects - are you focusing your power the way you should; are you using your hips to generate that power. I also like the feel of your fist actually hitting something hard. Again, if you're not doing things right, these exercises will let you know - like striking without straight wrist, etc.

Well actually, your entire body should be generating the power for the strike. It's what Chinese martial arts refer to as energy transferring between "Earth" (beneath your feet) and "Heaven" (the point of contact).

Now I wanna go watch Masterforce!

[GoktimusPrime]

Agreed. Hapkido is definitely more practical as it is a practice that teaches the individual to use the energies of their attacker rather than relying on flashy kicks and punches.

IMO "flashy" moves are useless in a real fight. They're widely used in sport and performance martial arts because those martial arts have been modified for use other than combat.

That's why I like the dirty and messy fight choreography in the Transformers live action films - it's what a _real_ fight looks like. Just chaos happening all over the place. The "art" in being a martial artist is being able to ride along with that chaos. Toy Story actually has one of the best quotes that describes martial arts: it's not flying, it's falling with style.

The best way of describing Hapkido to someone that doesn't know the style is to compare it to Taekwondo. Taekwondo is mostly about the big 'circle' movements and kicks whereas Hapkido is more about smaller circles and redirecting your oppponents energies e.g. grapples, holds, breaks etc.

I disagree with the statement about Taekwondo's circular nature. I think Taekwondo is a very linear style. Even if you look at their reverse spin kick, the kick itself doesn't spin. You turn your body 180 degrees then the leg kicks up in a linear movement. The body itself turns, but the kick itself doesn't. If you look at Taekwondo's Taeguk Poomsae, there's virtually bugger all circular movement.

This is all rather ironic considering the history of Taekwondo's creation. Much like how Frantzis argues that Aikijutsu was derived from Baguazhang, but Ueshiba would never have admitted this as it would have been extremely politically incorrect at the time, Taekwondo is essentially derived from Shotokan Karate. TKD's founder Choi Honghi lived in Japan for some time where he learnt Shotokan Karate from Funakoshi Gichin himself. At the end of WWII Korea underwent a period of intense anti-Japanese sentimentality after having been forced to be a Japanese colony for 30 years. Thus it was not PC for Koreans to be seen openly embracing anything Japanese. So in order for Karate instructors like Choi to stay in business, he had to redesign and remarket his martial art. He modified his Karate and renamed it "Taekwondo" to make it look and sound more Korean. Now the real irony is that in Taekwondo's modification of Japanese Shotokan Karate, they've actually played DOWN Karate's original Chinese elements, and amplified its Japanese elements!

Chinese Kung Fu is quite circular and fluid in nature. Okinawan Karate is also quite circular. Japanese Karate became less circular and more linear. Taekwondo is even less circular and more linear! There are claims that Taekwondo is merged with traditional Korean martial arts, but I don't see it. If you look at Taekkyeon (which today is primarily a performance art), its movements are circular. A lot of Taekwondo practitioners claim that Taekwondo evolved from traditional Korean martial arts, but there's insufficient evidence to support this theory. All the evidence I've seen indicates that it was derived from Japanese Karate. Arguments against Taekwondo's Japanese origins seem more based on Korean national sentimentality rather than on substantial evidence.

One of the most detailed texts on ancient Korean martial arts is the Muyedobotongji; which has sources that can be traced back to Ming Dynasty China. The ancient Korean art of bare-handed fighting, known as Gwonbeop is derived from Chinese Quanfa (boxing), and is written in the same Kanji (which in Japanese is Kempo (拳法), although as I've said before, Kempo doesn't have a direct lineage to Chinese Boxing). So evidence, both in terms of ancient texts and by examining pre-Taekwondo Korean martial arts like Gweonbop, Taekkyeon etc., indicates that traditional Korean martial arts were more similar to Chinese martial arts (more circular) rather than of Japanese Karate (more linear). Even older Japanese martial arts (e.g. Taijutsu) is more circular in nature than Japanese Karate. Some people argue that the linear nature of Japanese martial arts is derived from Kenjutsu -- i.e.: using straight linear movements like you would when hacking with a sword. Admittedly my knowledge here is rather limited, but my initial thoughts are skeptical considering that Karate was widely practised by commoners whereas Kenjutsu was restricted to the Samurai class. Also some might argue that pre-Bakumatsu Samurai used more circular techniques anyway (which I imagine would have been particularly important during the second Mongolian invasion of Japan in 1281.

[5FDP]

I disagree with the statement about Taekwondo's circular nature.

That's OK. We'll just agree to disagree then shall we

[GoktimusPrime]

Actually, I think I misunderstood what you meant by "circle movements." Perhaps what you meant to say was that Hapkido, like all internal styles, has a greater focus on the use of small and subtle circular motions than external styles like Taekwondo.

Internal styles will use small and subtle circular movements to manipulate rotational force (torque), as well as the use of other biomechanic principles like leverage etc. This video demonstrates how you can counter your opponent's power just through the use of small and subtle rotations.

Having said that, not all internal styles use small circular movements though. Most do, but some don't. An exception that comes to mind is none other than Hapkido's forerunner, Aikido, which uses quite outwardly large circular movements (even their wrist and ankle rotations are rather "large"), as can be seen in this video. However Aikido practitioners justify this by saying that Aikido techniques were based on Taijutsu used by Samurai, this should be able to be used when holding a sword, thus you're unable to do the smaller and tighter turns that other internal styles use, lest you run into your own blade! ;D

But I personally prefer smaller, tighter and more subtle circular movements.

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Note: I'm not saying that circular movements or styles with more of an emphasis/focus on circular movements are inherently superior to linear movements and styles that emphasis those. While circular movements have the advantage of being able to manipulate your opponent's power, linear movements have the advantage of being faster (since the shortest distance between any two points is a straight line!). In reality, all martial arts have both circular and linear elements to them and both have their values in practical application. While I enjoy discussing different elements between styles, I'd like to remind people that by doing so I'm not encouraging or condoning "style discrimination." As I've often said before, the best style is the style that works for you (the individual). Besides, my favourite move would have to be a straight external and linear kick to the janglies!

[klystron]

Taekwondo is essentially derived from Shotokan Karate. TKD's founder Choi Honghi lived in Japan for some time where he learnt Shotokan Karate from Funakoshi Gichin himself.

I did not know that. Very interesting.

Besides, my favourite move would have to be a straight external and linear kick to the janglies!

A very effective move regardless of which style you practice!

[5FDP]

Actually, I think I misunderstood what you meant by "circle movements." Perhaps what you meant to say was that Hapkido, like all internal styles, has a greater focus on the use of small and subtle circular motions than external styles like Taekwondo.

That's another way of saying it, but I get your point now. It seems we are on the same page now

[GoktimusPrime]

TakaraTOMY Bludgeon (L) vs. Hasbro Bludgeon (R):


Okay, I don't know if anyone can tell, cos I posed these in a real hurry and the stances/positions probably aren't very accurate - but the intention at least was to have TOMY Bludgeon using Japanese kenjutsu vs. Hasbro Bludgeon using Spanish Rapier Brawling (so the Japanese toy is using a Japanese martial art and the Western Bludgeon is using a European martial art ). But anyway, this demonstrates a basic technique from Rapier fighting -- using the dagger to make contact and 'stick' to your opponent's sword, thus trapping it, then following up by bringing your own sword down and slashing across the opponent's throat (cutting the jugular vein).

[kup]

Offtopic: Why do you have two Bludgeons?

[Autocon]

which martial arts dont u do because its crap? lol karate, tai kuondow....?