Did anyone point out that the odds of a 7 year old overcoming an adult male are slim to none?
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Did anyone point out that the odds of a 7 year old overcoming an adult male are slim to none?
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This!Originally Posted by Sinnertwin
And what does this say about the schools/instructors who are teaching this rubbish to kids? As Megatron would say...
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It's abundantly clear that a lot of the people in my current Tai Chi group only learn Tai Chi as a form of meditative exercise rather than a martial art. And that's fine. However I find that a weakness with this mindset is that it can lead to people doing the forms incorrectly as they don't know what the moves are for. Kinda like learning a language without ever learning to have a conversation with someone else in it; much like how we teach dead languages like Latin, or the way that English is typically taught in Japan
So on Saturday I was talking to a guy about Tai Chi applications, and we're specifically talking about a part of the Yang Tai Chi technique known as Part the Wild Horse's Mane. And I was talking about how some people in the group leave their thumb poking out during this technique, and as I'm sure that any martial artist reading this post will immediately know that you never leave your thumb protruded as it risks all manner of injuries to yourself (e.g. opponent's incoming punch can break your thumb, opponent may be able to even grab your thumb and bend it backwards etc.). It's just such an unnecessary risk. But this guy keeps insisting to me that by keeping my thumb tucked in, I've been doing it wrong, and that the correct method is to do it with the thumb sticking out.*sigh*
Just to clarify, this is how I do it, and this is how some other people do it, and according to this guy I spoke to, is the right way and mine is wrong.This guy originally hails from South America, and I asked him to imagine fighting against a Brazilian Juujutsu fighter and reaching out like that with the thumb exposed. Or even against a decent boxer. Good luck with that. But nothing I said or showed him could convince him of the potential dangers of exposing your thumb like that. So I then asked him what the advantage/benefit was for leaving the thumb sticking out like that. His answer: grappling/grabbing. i.e. you need your thumb out when you grab onto your opponent's arm (re: opposable thumb), which is true, but of course, you only grab the arm after you've made contact with the arm (and thus the arm is no longer in a position to damage your thumb), not before! One of the key purposes of Tai Chi's push hands is to teach you how to stick to your opponent in order potentially lead onto things like grappling.
But one problem with the way that Push Hands is often practised is that both parties begin in contact. If you look at that video link, you can see that both guys offer up their arms to each other to begin the exercise. It's not as if they're intercepting a punch etc. (having said that, they both do keep their thumbs tucked in!). Even this Push Hands "Real" Fighting Moves video only shows you how to apply the techniques after your arms have made contact with each other. But how do you get into that position in the first place? It's not as if you're going to ask an attacker in real life, "Would you mind pressing both of your forearms against mine?" Riiight.
But even putting aside the entire fight application aspect, all of these people are trying to learn the forms and do them correctly. But a lot of them are really quite sloppy in their forms and are learning very slowly, and I suspect that it's due to a lack of any mention of applications. Last week I saw one of the instructors correcting a student on a basic technique. Afterwards I asked that student how long he'd been training, and he told me that he'd been training for two years!
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Last Saturday I watched someone teaching someone else a Wu Style Tai Chi Form. I'd never seen Wu Style before, so it was pretty interesting.
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Video: Chinese Police Self Defence
Most* of the moves in this video are pretty good. He's incapacitating/immobilising the aggressor in no more than 2-3 moves. This is how every martial art should operate.Your training must be teaching you to terminate a fight immediately.
Here's one that might interest Bartrim: Arrest and control techniques demonstrated by ret. Australian police officer
Nice, simple and effective grappling techniques. This one's in the context of arresting or escorting an inebriated suspect though, so the opponent isn't attempting to resist or counterattack, but the techniques are all sound. They all terminate the fight in no more than 3 moves max.
This is similar to how a lot of Tai Chi Push Hands training is done; just like in this video, both parties agree to begin in contact with each other and then execute the techniques. My criticism of how this is done in a lot of Tai Chi classes is that nobody ever teaches you how to "bridge the gap" or make that initial contact. If the opponent is not attacking or resisting you (as in this video), then sure, making contact is as easy as just walking up behind them. But if the person is actively fighting you, then you can't really do that. Now I'm sure that police are trained to bridge the gap, and I'm lucky that I've also been taught this in my old Tai Chi training. But the last Tai Chi school that I went to and the one that I'm attending now never teach this. It just starts with both people pressing their forearms against each other and then begin pushing. Here's an example of what I mean. There is no gap bridging in this, an this is how a lot of people practice Tai Chi Push Hands. That's one thing that bugs me with my current training.
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*There are a few moves in the video where he's taking more than 2-3 moves, and some of the techniques are quite complex against an overly compliant partner. So I'm not sure how effective some of those techniques would be. But the vast majority of this guy's techniques looks really good.
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Continued from here...
This is something that has been discussed a few times on this thread, and IMO is one common flaw in many martial arts schools because they fail to adequately address it. As you and your friend experienced, real fights don't begin like in sparring matches where you square off and bow, show respect etc. It's more like being attacked by a predatory animal; you literally just get jumped* on and you have only a fraction of a second to respond at best. One of my pet peeves is how many martial arts schools fail to factor this element of fight reality into their training, meaning that often a student's training can become useless because they're more likely to just be pounced on before they even have time to recall and use their training. There's actually been heaps of research done about this from the military. Much of it dating back millennia, but a lot of recorded and methodical research was conducted by Air Forces throughout the 20th Century. See this post for more detail.
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*In fact, the word "assault" is French for "jump" (hence a turning jump is called a somersault). It originally comes from the Latin word "salit" which has mutated into different versions across Romance languages. e.g. in Spanish it's "salt," hence why the South American G1 & G2 Jumpstarters are called "Salt Man" (literally meaning "Jump Man").
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A brief look at Maori martial arts based on the Haka
Disclaimer: This is mostly based on my personal guesses based on the movements I can see in the Haka compared with movements in other martial arts, with one exception noted below (※).
- Top left: Appears to be the Maori equivalent of a Riding Horse Stance.
- Top right: Possibly a form of physical conditioning; some martial arts employ slapping or hitting one's own body to strengthen it and make it more resilient or tolerant to being hit. Comparative picture is from Pigua Kung Fu. Many grappling/wrestling arts build resistance by sheer virtue of being continuously thrown on the mat (e.g. Juujutsu vs Aikido). Footy players would naturally be resilient due to being proficient in a high contact tackle sport.
- Bottom left: ※Attacking the core, often known as the Tanden in East Asian medicine and martial arts. Wing Chun Kung Fu's idea of attacking the centreline theory is an extension of this concept. I have actually seen this technique from the Maori Haka demonstrated; in practice the hands are closer together and the thumbs protrude forward at the point of impact, driving into the Tanden and sending the opponent flying backwards! (as you are breaking through their centre of mass)
- Bottom right: Groin attack. In Aussie terms, startin' the old Victa lawnmower.
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This video's been doing the rounds on FB lately. Give yourself a good minute or so to have a good LOL at it before coming back to this thread.
Done? Cool. Let's have a proper discussion about the technique (or lack thereof) displayed here. This video pretty much demonstrates my long standing criticism against what I call "off the ground" kicks, which I've commonly seen in styles like Muay Thai. The advantage of this method is that it does generate more power, no doubt's there. But one of the main disadvantages that this video highlights is its lack of versatility. It is extremely difficult (nigh impossible?) for the practitioner to abort the kick after launching it. That kicker would have seen his foot approaching the woman's head -- it may have even played in slow motion in his mind but there was nothing he could have done to stop it (much like when you're falling off a bicycle; everything slows down but there's nothing you can do).
Many other styles teach you to lift your knee first and then convert that into the desired kick, as can be seen in this step by step photo sequence.* The disadvantage of this method is that it is not as powerful as an off-the-ground kick, but it is still really bloody strong!
This video also shows the other criticism that I have about these sort of kicks. Yep, you guessed it...
And to be fair, it's not a flaw that's restricted to off-the-ground kickers. I've seen knee-first kickers expose their groins too when moving into a kick, like this guy here.* You can see how completely exposed his groin is in the far left photo.
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*Both people demonstrating those knee-first kicks are both coincidentally also committing a common technical mistake that I see a lot of people do, and that is rocking the head backwards while delivering the kick. I've never seen any pre-WWII literature that cites the rocking back of the head like that while delivering the kick. Evidence suggests that this habit was born during the 20th Century as this is how modern soldiers kick because it helps them to counter-balance the weight of their boots (it's common knowledge that army boots are substantially heavier than average civilian shoes (let alone barefoot)).
Here are some old photos of martial artists performing kicks. You will notice that they maintain a completely upright posture - no leaning - as is still taught in traditional martial arts schools.
- Miyagi Chojun; founder of Okinawan Gojuryu Karate.
- Miyagi teaching; you can see that the two students who are kicking both have upright postures
- Miyagi watching more students training; this photo must have been taken no later than in the 1930s, as it is credited to Higaonna Morio, who passed away in 1938. You can also see that most of these students aren't even wearing Gis or belts; they are just training topless or in their underwear (which is exactly how the Okinawans traditionally trained!). We know that Gis and coloured belts was only adopted by Karate in the 1930s, so I reckon that this photo must've been taken in or close to that decade.
- Another photo of Miyagi teaching; everyone's wearing Gi pants and belts, and Miyagi himself is now wearing a Gi, so this must've been 1930s or 40s.
- Funakoshi Gen (founder of Japanese Karate (Shotokan)) performing stamping kicks in the Naihanchi kata.
- Hanashiro Chomo (founder of Shorinryu Karate) performing a forward kick (Maegeri). He was killed during the US bombing of Japan during WWII, so this photo would've been taken no later than 1945.
- Choi Hong Hi (founder of Taekwondo) performing a kick with a relatively upright posture.
And as we all know, Karate is ultimately descendant from Chinese Kung Fu, so here are some photos of traditional Kung Fu kicks.
Northern Kung Fu kicks
Tai Chi
Long Fist
Northern Praying Mantis
Southern Kung Fu kicks
Wing Chun; and here's a photo of Ip Man kicking.
Hung Gar; and if anyone is wondering about the authenticity of this practitioner's technique, she was the third wife of Wong Fei Hong!
As you can see, all are performed upright.
At least one person appreciates the pre-war citations
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The Ninja - Real Accurate Historical Representation; this is a pretty well researched video that delves into the historically accurate representation of what ninjas probably were like, debunking many of the myths that have come to form the common perception of ninjas. He even cites Dr. Stephen Turnbull's research, whose research on Japanese Samurai history is impeccable (Turnbull lived in Japan for many years when conducting his research).
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We all know the dangers of martial arts schools that claim to teach self defence but actually don't. Last week I saw this video of a so-called martial arts demonstration (at the beginning of the video the audio explicitly stated that it was a demonstration of martial arts). When I criticised this video, someone replied stating that she had practised martial arts for over 20 years and, for no other reason, insisted that these techniques would work in a real street fight. She then demanded to know my credentials blah blah blah. I wasn't in the mood to compare the size of our... credentials... so I just started posting screen caps of the video illustrating the many basic flaws that I could see. And as you can see, these are very basic, basic flaws. I'm not sure how anyone who's trained in a martial art for over 20 hours (let alone years) could not pick up on these flaws.
It was at this stage that someone representing this group posted and said that I was correct; that this was not martial arts, but rather an exercise programme inspired by martial arts, and that all people who attend their gym are made aware of this. The person who'd initially argued with me never posted a reply.The disclaimer wasn't made on the video, hence I didn't know. But I have no problem with non-combative martial arts classes, so long as the school is upfront and honest about the fact that they are not teaching self defence. As a Tai Chi practitioner myself, I frequently come across Tai Chi classes that only teach it as a form of holistic exercise, and not as a combative form of self defence.
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"Kendo - The Problems I Have With It After 3 Years of Practice"
^An excellent and detailed video which highlights something that I've often discussed on this thread, and that is the crucial difference between traditional (i.e. historically authentic) and modern martial arts, especially those which are geared more towards being a competitive sport. He illustrates well how Kendo has been greatly simplified and watered down during the 20th Century. He also applies his historical expertise to explain why and how this happened, which I found quite insightful.
And this is the same observation that I have made with the way that many other East Asian martial arts are taught today (as detailed in my comments relating to my short-lived experience in Karate etc.) - many of these arts have been significantly watered down and are merely shadows of what they once were. Much like this author, I also began my martial arts training in the traditional arts, and I also find it incredibly frustrating when training in a more modern style for the very reasons that he's cited in his video; because from a technical POV, they lose their combat effectiveness. Anyway, I think the video is definitely worth watching.
Another one of his videos which I've recently watched is Women in Armour, debunking the myths about what kind of armour women wore; myths perpetuated by games and movies. But as many of us know, basically women wore the same armour as men, and the same still happens with modern soldiers today. He makes the very valid point that armour isn't intended to look good, it's intended to be functional. And this is another issue that I have with some modern martial arts vs traditional arts -- some modern martial arts like to include various fancy looking moves (e.g. high kicks, spinning strikes, leaps/flips etc.), which look great, but are impractical in a real fight. As the author points out in the Kendo video, many of these modern moves may work better in a competition fight because of the rules of the sport. However, in a real fight where there are a far greater number of variables and no rules to govern the fight, this may not be the case. So there are often times where we can see that what may work in a competition fight may not necessarily work in a real fight. I knew someone who happily trains in both competition and combative martial arts, but he says that he never mixes the two together and described them as "oil and water."
The Kendo video makes an excellent point in pointing out that striking the traps of your opponent scores no points as it's not a valid target, so many Kendo practitioners never learn to strike there, but rather thrust to the chest. He points out that the advent of breast armour makes chest thrusts practically useless, and it also leaves you dangerously exposed since your blade is lowered. The most that a chest thrust would do would be the simply push the opponent back, but he would be relatively unharmed. Striking down at the traps would cut through your opponent's lung and heart, killing them; and he points out that this is what Kenjutsu teaches. Relating it back to my own interest in hand-to-hand self defence, I see that it's similar to how many people that I come across who train for competition fights simply don't attack the groin or even fail to adequately defend their own groin. Because this is an invalid and often illegal target in competitions, modern fighters are simply not trained to target this area, and worse still, not defend their own. I can understand people not wanting to use such devastating techniques - fine. But I think that it's also important to understand how these techniques work in order to defend yourself from them. It's difficult to defend yourself from an attack if you've never tried using it. As Sun Tzu said in 'The Art of War,' "Know your enemy as you know yourself and you shall not fear the outcome of a hundred battles."
Learning about striking the traps or groin etc. isn't necessarily about advocating the use of these attacks, but rather how to protect yourself from it. I think it's theoretically similar to the idea behind say a defensive driving course where the instructor will make you deliberately lose control of the vehicle. They're not teaching you this to say that you should lose control of your vehicle, but so that they can teach you how to regain control of the vehicle should you lose control of it. And similarly in self defence, I think that it's worth looking at some really brutal and even lethal techniques, so that we may gain a better understanding of how they work and how we may better defend ourselves from them. e.g. people who duck and weave to evade punches don't seem to have an adequate appreciation of how badly this exposes their necks and upper spines (since breaking the neck or spine are illegal in boxing and other competitive fighting sports). The Kendo video also makes a similar point about how Kendo practitioners peel their back heels up, which of course compromises their balance.
I've been enjoying this guy's videos. Here's a person who understands the crucial differences between functional traditional martial arts (and has both the technical and historical knowledge (far beyond my amateur level) to back it up).
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P.S.: On a completely different note, today I'd loaded all my training gear including boxing bag into the boot of my wife's hatchback to bring to my storage unit after work. I underestimated how back heavy the car had become and when going over a speed hump at about 30km/h, when my back wheels came off the speed hump the entire rear section dropped so low that the back of the car bounced off the road!
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