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Thread: Martial arts discussion thread

  1. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    Undecided atm. My work schedule doesn't allow me to resume Yang Tai Chi training until October -- I hope. However one of my Senseis has said that s/he's happy to have be continue coming to class even if I don't ever upgrade my membership. S/he said that it's up to the GKR organisation to chase me up for that membership upgrade fee, but s/he's not going to do it for them.

    So it seems my options are:
    + Look for another martial arts school
    + Continue GKR
    + Just train privately (and save my time/money - especially if the schools I'm finding aren't teaching anything of value to me)

    I was kinda thinking about trying BJJ, but last week I spoke to this guy, he's a 3rd dan in traditional Okinawan Karate, and he told me that BJJ is also geared toward competition fighting rather than combative/self defensive fighting. He told me that he once had a BJJ guy come to his Dojo and put him in a headlock. He asked the BJJ guy if he had finished the lock, and he said yes. He then dropped back into a Zenkutsudachi and slammed a downward "hammer punch" into the BJJ guy's groin. And I must say that when I used to train with MMA guys who mucked around with BJJ, I encountered similar things -- like when they pinned me from on top, I could really easily just slide my hands down their front and yank their nads off if I wanted to.

    But I've personally only ever done BJJ in 'mixed' martial arts schools -- I've never done it in a full proper BJJ Dojo, so I'm wondering if training in a "pure" BJJ dojo would be any better than training in say schools that teach other martial arts or MMA that happen to mix in BJJ with their training. <shrug>

    Last week I spoke to a woman who was doing fundraising to send her son to Japan for a Karate championship thing, and she was telling me how her son is now coming to the realisation that his Karate club is all about making money and not about teaching people how to fight. She said that he's been to Japan before for Karate training, and it was over there when he trained in a traditional style's dojo that he realised that his school here is a McDojo. She said that the school in Japan he trained in only had one belt - black. At first I was surprised, then I stopped and thought about it... but that does actually sound really traditional! Well, not the black belt (coloured belts are no more ancient and traditional than the modern airplane or automobile ), but of course the concept of not having grades. If they start from black belt, it must mean they're starting from Shodan... which makes perfect sense since "shodan" literally means "beginner's level" and is the traditional point to begin Karate training. All the other levels preceding that have only existed since the 20th Century. It was really refreshing to hear that there are still authentic Karate schools that exist out there. Reminds me of my old Chen Tai Chi school.

    But trying to find authentic martial arts schools like that in my area atm has been... challenging. My quest continues. The lady I spoke to said that she and her son have also been looking for a better Karate school, they said that they've found one that's better than the previous one he was training at - though still not as authentic as the one he trained with in Japan.

    I guess the reality is that authentic martial art schools just don't make as much money as the more 'modern' martial arts schools. Even my Chen Tai Chi teacher never made that much money out of his classes - often taught out of his backyard and usually you could count the number of students who turned up on one hand. As disappointing as I've found traditional schools to be, there's no denying that they do rake in a LOT of money. But I wonder where all that money goes to. It doesn't seem to be reinvested back into the school. Because as small-scale as the Chen Tai Chi school that I went to was, our teacher did reinvest earnings back into the classes by purchasing/maintaining training equipment for students to use such as focus pads, Thai pads, protective gear, weights, kick shields, mats etc. -- and they'd all be regularly used and worn and replaced. The teacher also purchased books -- he had a private library that students could access, and some of the books had to be imported (because it's not easy to find decent literature on martial arts in Western countries). And we never had membership fees or whatever... just an annual fee to cover insurance then basic lesson fees (which became cheaper if you attended more lessons). With GKR, I've paid the trial membership fee and lesson fees; all of which are quite considerable, but I've never seen or touched any training equipment provided from the school. When sparring we actually have to purchase/bring our own protective gear from home. I haven't even seen (let alone touched) a single focus pad or kick shield etc. They don't use weights in training (as I've mentioned before, one of the Senseis argued that it's not part of Karate ). I haven't bothered to purchase a uniform or belt, but I'm assuming that that's gotta be paid out of students' own pockets too, right? Are there fees for grading? It seems that in GKR they keep asking us to pay for this and that... but where's the money going to?
    what have you decided to do dude?
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  2. #512
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    I didn't go to any classes this week, but I did some private training yesterday. During this time I had someone hold a kick shield for me and I was practising round house kicks -- I practised both the way I was taught in GKR with the knee sticking out, and the way I was taught in Tai Chi with the knee up front. Aside from the groin-defence issue, something else that I didn't think about before came up -- power. I found that the knee up front roundhouse kick delivered greater power whereas the knee to the side delivered noticeably less power.

    The immediate explanation that comes to mind is less rotation, which of course means less rotational energy. When sticking the knee out to the side, my leg is already positioned for a roundhouse kick, so the leg just swings in. My supporting leg and hips do rotate, but my kicking leg does not. Whereas with the knee up front version, the kicking leg needs to rotate 90 degrees as the kick is delivered. This extra rotation would naturally generate additional rotational energy.

    I actually wasn't even looking to compare the power output of these kicks, I was practising roundhouse kicks and I just felt like practising both versions... I mean, I've been practising all these new punches and kicks in GKR class, but never had the opportunity to try them with any form of tacticle contact, so I decided to see what it would feel like to deliver a roundhouse kick as I've been taught in GKR. To my surprise it was quite weak -- and I wasn't trying to be weak with it, I delivered both roundhouse kicks with equal strength. I could feel that the knee up front version was stronger, and the person holding the shield said so too.

  3. #513
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    Been back 3 weeks since our holiday break. Things are going well. My Sensei is going for his 2nd dan black belt so he is putting on a BBQ this weekend but before hand we are having 40 rounds of sparring. I don't know who will be cooking the BBQ. It wont be me

    Plus next month I get to start my instructor accreditation course.
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  4. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartrim View Post
    Been back 3 weeks since our holiday break. Things are going well. My Sensei is going for his 2nd dan black belt so he is putting on a BBQ this weekend but before hand we are having 40 rounds of sparring. I don't know who will be cooking the BBQ. It wont be me

    Plus next month I get to start my instructor accreditation course.
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  5. #515
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    had an awesome night at judo!!!!!! glad to be back
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  6. #516
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    Glad you're enjoying getting back into Judo.

    I've tried some Judo before and found that it didn't suit my needs; I've sparred with two black belts, one was a Judo Sensei from America, the other a Judo black belt from Japan (trained in Japan) - neither of them could throw me even though I let them grab me (which would never happen in a real fight). But to be fair to Judo, they don't claim to teach self-defence. The dojo that I went to, their advertising didn't mention self defence at all, and the Sensei I spoke to openly admitted that it's a sport and not a fighting form (he told me that if I want to learn how to fight, look somewhere else) -- and I can respect that. The official site for Australian Judo doesn't mention self-defence at all, but does talk about the other benefits of learning Judo as a fun sport.



    Sport-wise, I've seen disabled (blind) Judo before - that's rather interesting. It's the same rules as regular Judo, but the competitors start already in contact with each other, whereas in regular Judo they stand at a distance and then step in to make contact. Being in the stands was interesting, everyone cheers REALLY loudly when barracking for blind competitors (since it's the only way they can tell that they're being supported -- banners, flags etc. mean nothing to them)

  7. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    We were going through kicks in tonight's class, one of the new guys asked how to block a roundhouse kick, and Sensei showed us a block that we (white belts) have never learnt before. One of the red belts recommended that we could use Gedan-Barai, which is probably what I would've said too considering the exceeding limited repertoire that we've been taught, but Sensei disagreed. IMO neither the block she showed or the Gedan are better or worse than the other... and really, kicks are better off being blocked with legs than hands/arms (which you would use only if the kick's come in too fast for you to get your leg up in time - so arm blocks against kicks are still useful IMO as a backup). I was talking to that red belt later and asked him if he's ever been kicked by someone with a massively powerful roundhouse kick (like say, a lot of Muay Thai fighters)... cos blocking those with your arms would cane! (even blocking them with your legs hurts, but I'd hate to imagine how painful they'd be to block with arms!)

    GKR kicks are similar to Tai Chi kicks insofar that the knee is lifted first before doing the kick, which sacrifices power, but gains greater manoeuvreability and versatility. Other fighters launch their kicks straight from the ground without lifting the knee first. While they sacrifice manoeuvreability and versatility, they gain massive power! XO Although I must say that one significant difference w/ the GKR roundhouse kick is that the knee is lifted up to the side instead of in front like with a front, side and back kick (in Tai Chi we lift to the front, same as every other kick). I can see that this is to help give the roundhouse kick more power, but damn it _completely_ opens the groin!! If you wanna generate more power, I reckon you're better off just launching the kick straight off from the ground and forget about the knee lift. Lifting it off to the side when kicking straight ahead kinda defeats the versatility advantage since you're exposing yourself anyway.

    Sensei then asked if there were any other questions, and I asked what the defence is against someone who grabs your kicking leg. Sensei's response said that it would never happen because grabbing is against the rules in GKR. So I said, but what about in self defence? Sensei then said that our kicks just need to be faster than the opponent's grab... but I think she quickly realised that it wasn't a very good answer (because the obvious next question would've been "But what if they do grab you?!") - which was on everyone's face. So she paused and thought for a while, then asked one of the senior students to grab her leg and she tried to get out of it... but couldn't. So she told us that there you can't get out if someone grabs your kicking leg. Again... good luck fighting a grappler, guys. Heck, even people who do Wrestling (like the kind they do at the Olympics) will grab your legs! I once sparred against a wrestler who dived at my ankles and grabbed both of them and quickly lifted them up over my head before jumping on me -- I had to go into breakfall and use ground-fighting techniques against him because I'd completely lost my footing.

    Anyway, I politely asked Sensei if I could show them something, and I asked the senior student to grab my leg, and just showed them a very simple technique where you just shift your weight forward into the leg that's being held (i.e. so that the person holding your leg ends up bearing your entire body weight), and of course with elbows bearing forward as you do. I told Sensei that I wanted to know what GKR's counter to a leg grab was, which was the initial purpose of my question - and she understood that and said that she'll get back to me next week with an answer.

    Anyway, next week's the last week of my trial period. Unless something amazing happens then that impresses me and convinces me to continue with GKR in my area, I'm likely to look elsewhere for a more effectual place to learn self defence. There's a BJJ school not far from me that I might have a look at.
    Hi there, just new to the thread, but saw your comments and thought I could shed some light. Your instructor is correct in part, understanding that when we throw kicks, the expectation is that they are not caught. However, you are right, kicks can and often are caught by your opponent. What we teach is first of all, to avoid them being caught you must practise getting them back in the same manner they are delivered (ie you reverse the technique, rather than just letting them hit your target and dropping straight back to the floor, where they again become a counter-target). So your kicks must be delivered at speed. If your foot / leg IS caught in either front-kick or roundhouse kick, an option is to pull your leg close to your body. The reasoning being that if your leg is being held, then your opponent has their hands down (to hold your leg), thus sacrificing defence of their head. As you bend your knee to bring your opponent in, start jabbing to the head. You will find your opponent will quickly decide that holding your leg is NOT in their best interests as they are unable to block the head strikes. Just thought you might find this helpful in some manner. Practise this next time you are able. There are a number of other retaliations for a leg grab which involve dropping your supporting leg and taking your opponent to the ground (see any senior BJJ student and they can show you how to do this), but just be careful when deciding to go to the ground. Hope this helps

  8. #518
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    Welcome to the board Posnik and thank you for your considered response.

    Out of the suggestions you've made, I would personally go for the leg-drop, though I'd rather not go to the ground with my opponent. In Tai Chi we remain upright with all our holds and submission techniques, similar to Aikido.

  9. #519
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    Hmmm... work schedule has temporarily changed; thinking about resuming Yang Tai Chi training -- at least for the next 2-3 weeks until my work schedule clashes with the classes again. C'est la vie.

  10. #520
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    We had a special 40 round sparring session today followed by a BBQ. Thankfully one of the guys wives cooked because none of us were really up for cooking after 40 rounds.
    HATRED FOR JAMES VAN DER BEEK RISING!

    Still have some stuff for sale. Free pickup at Parra Fair
    http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=8503

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