Martial arts discussion thread

[GoktimusPrime]

It's binary logic - 00010011110100001010011101010001110010

0 = yin, 1 = yang



It's all about what technique to use when, and the timing is often dependent on the situation, which is constantly in flux. So Yin Yang often represents two extreme techniques in fighting...
e.g.:
0 = soft, 1 = hard
0 = high, 1 = low
0 = retreat, 1 = advance
0 = grapple, 1 = strike
0 = close range, 1 = long range
0 = circular, 1 = linear

When should you be 0, when should you be 1? It depends on what the opponent is doing. And another thing that the Yin Yang symbol points out is that in each extreme there is an element of the other. You can be hard with some element of softness (e.g.: Okinawan Goujuu), and soft with some element of hardness (e.g.: qigong).

Quick example, one mistake that a lot of newbs make when they're grappled and/or placed into submission holds is that they hardened/seize up their body and try to flee by moving/pulling away from the grappler... and usually all that does is allow the grappler to tighten their lock! They're often surprised when you show them that counter-grappling usually involves relaxing and softening your body and moving into the grappler rather than away from them.

You forgot to mention another good attack when your opponent ducks under a punch...

Knee to the face or sternum...

That would work too, but dropping onto the vertebrae is easier IMO and harder to counter. If you were to try to knee someone in the face or sternum while they were bobbing under your punch it's not that hard for them to block it - blocking a downward strike to your back while you're leaning forward - I don't see how that's even possible. You'd be better off just tackling/charging the other guy rather than trying to block.

[i_amtrunks]

That would work too, but dropping onto the vertebrae is easier IMO and harder to counter. If you were to try to knee someone in the face or sternum while they were bobbing under your punch it's not that hard for them to block it - blocking a downward strike to your back while you're leaning forward - I don't see how that's even possible. You'd be better off just tackling/charging the other guy rather than trying to block.

Yeah kneeing is easier to block, but you really have to be focused to block it since you are trying to move almost all your body at once in reaction to another person.

Blocking your neck when under a person is nigh impossible, and even if it's only a hyper-active 6 year old, if they get an elbow your neck it really hurts!

Hell go for the win, knee to the sternum and a blow to the neck simultaneously!

[GoktimusPrime]

that would be difficult to effectively execute because kneeing and downward striking require different weight distributions in your stances. I would say go for one or the other. If he blocks your knee, that's still fine because you've still successfully thwarted his attempt to weave around you.

[GoktimusPrime]

So many martial arts and self-defence demonstrations make the common mistake of portraying the opponent as less competent/incompetent - in short, continuing along the dangerous assumption that your opponent is not better than you, and often assuming that they're inferior.

Check out this so-called defence against a bear-hug. (original URL)


"The grab from the rear: mid to high around the defender’s upper arms"


"The defender drives his elbows out to the side (to loosen the initial hold), while he sinks downward under it."
Okay, at this stage the defender must be aware that his opponent has begun to counter his hold and would be working to either abort the hold or execute a counter-counter technique to maintain his hold.


The defender drives his elbow backward into the opponent’s lower ribs.
wtf... why is the attacker still trying to bear hug him when it's clearly no longer working?! Is he retarded??

"In this defense the response must be immediate and hard. If you are able to slip away there are many counter attack options in addition to elbow strike shown here. You can then escape."

If, however, you are well versed in jujutsu or aikido you may elect to control the opponent. If the opponent’s arms are still around you or near your side you could elect to do an arm control technique (called sankyo in aikido). Here your arms move from an elbow strike to grasp your opponent’s right hand.
...and why isn't the attacker thumping this guy with his left arm, legs, shoulders, elbows, hips, head etc?? The defender has just casually waltzed into the attacker's "inside" which is very dangerous because he has instantly exposed himself to the rest of the attacker's body. It would have been wiser for him to step to the "outside." Stepping into the inside requires you to step much closer than what this guy's doing. What he's doing here is a relatively simple grappling technique from a distance which you just wouldn't do when you're standing on the opponent's inside because it's just to easy for him to start pummelling the crap out of you with the rest of his body.


"You then move back under the opponent’s arm (while changing your grasp)" - and what? The attacker just idly lets you do this how?!? - and turning with your whole body to the left toward your opponent, lift and twist the opponent’s arm up (his elbow pointed upward) and to his back (the full details of this technique are left for another article). (3) This can be very painful."

The end result of this technique with that arm lock is fine - it's just the way that they got there that I find difficult to accept. (-_-)

The article does include a disclaimer that they've presumed that the attacker is "non-trained" - thus admitting that they're presuming that the attacker is inferior. *sigh*

It's hard to find demonstrations that don't make this silly presumption...

[tron07]

Goktimus, are you into any type of martial arts??

[GoktimusPrime]

Yeah. I personally mostly train in Seven Star Praying Mantis Kung Fu.
Some basic mantis grappling
Mantis counter to being grabbed from behind (single hand shoulder grab)

[GoktimusPrime]

kup's Omega Supreme video got me thinking about some of the terrible ways that some people walk/step in martial arts - and that also got me thinking about some of the bad ways that people just stand while fighting.

As any martial artist who's even worth listening to will tell you, the most fundamental aspect of fighting is the way you stand - your stance. Even boxers will work on their boxing stance, albeit at a far simpler level compared to martial arts (since modern boxing is more of a sport than a fighting art). I once heard a Goju Karate beginner tell me that her Sensei said that "if stance is wrong, all Karate wrong" - which I agree with.

So long as you're in an environment with a solid surface beneath your feet and gravity to contend with, you will need stances and methods of stepping.

One of the first things you learn as a beginner in almost any martial art is stances - one of the most common of these is the Riding Horse Stance (called "Ma Bu" in Chinese or "Kibadachi" in Japanese). One mistake that a lot of people make with their stances is that they're don't root themselves into their stance. A lot of people make the mistake of standing "on" Earth instead of "into" it.

When we learn striking techniques like punching, kicking etc. we are taught not to punch at the target, but through it. In other words, when delivering the strike, we aim behind the target in order to drive the force of that strike through it. It's a similar concept with stances (although not quite so forceful) - we need to drive our centre of gravity into the ground, not just on it. There's a lot of talk about driving Qi (Ki) from Heaven to Earth yada yada yada, but essentially we're talking about anchorage. When you have a good solid stance, you should be rooted into the ground - metaphorically speaking as if you're a tree spreading your roots through the earth.

Now about walking/stepping - the Omega Supreme video reminds me of how some people step in martial arts, especially people who do some internal styles of martial arts like Baguazhang (Eight Trigram Palm) Kung Fu etc.; they tend to do this "sliding through mud" kind of shuffling step - much like how Omega Supreme walks (well, shuffles). It's like this... mincing about instead of true stepping. Although internal arts like Bagua do have less pronounced forms of stepping, it is still actual stepping and not shuffling. True Bagua walking is more like "stepping on half-eggshells" or "stepping over carpet snakes" - there is a distinct rolling action with the feet.

Shuffling in martial arts is essentially reserved for special situations, like fighting in very wet mud which traps your feet and makes it difficult to step normally... in such situations it makes more sense to shuffle instead of stepping. But on more solid dry surfaces, shuffling doesn't make sense, and it decreases the integrity of your basic stance and step (which again, are vitally fundamental aspects of your fighting form).

This video shows someone practising a Baguazhang form with that shuffling/mincing step. If you're stepping like this in a fight, and you're not standing in saturated mud (or if you just so happen to be Omega Supreme), then you're not stepping correctly!

This video shows someone practising a Baguazhang form, but with much better stepping. As I mentioned before, Bagua stepping is by it's very nature quite subdued compared to a lot of other martial arts (remember, it is an internal martial art) but you'll see that his feet are still clearly stepping, not shuffling or mincing. There is a clear rolling action in his traction (heh). He's not doing the Omega Supreme shuffle!