Martial arts discussion thread

[GoktimusPrime]

Can someone explain to me what the hell happened in Green vs Briggs last night? I watched the vid a heap of times and still can' work it out?

From a martial arts POV I thought it was perfect. A common saying from Bushido is "one hit one kill," which is the ideal way of fighting (i.e. ending the fight with a single move; remember that Bushido was created in the context of feudal samurai warfare. In the context of modern civilian self defence it can be something as simple as subduing your attacker in a hold or grapple).

This is the difference between sport fighting and actual real fighting. In a sport, fights are prolonged, but real fights end quickly. The objective of a real fighter like a martial artist is not to engage in a sustained fight, but to end a fight as quickly as possible. In reality you're pretty lucky if you can finish your opponent with a single move. Think of Chess... you want to be able to Checkmate your opponent in as few moves as possible.

Briggs has fight induced brain damage - it is a disgrace that he was even allowed to fight!

From a sport POV I agree. From a martial arts POV we need to remember that in a real fight there are no equalising conditions like weight or size classes. And as I've often said, martial artists _should_ train with the assumption that your opponent will always be superior to you.

I was appalled by Green's response and the crowd's reaction to Briggs' defeat. IMO there's no honour in trying to further disgrace a defeated opponent... but this just further highlights how sport fighting and non-competitive martial arts are worlds apart.

[Bartrim]

But the knockout shot wouldn't of hurt a fly. I agree there is honour in disgracing a defeated opponent but their is no honour in taking a dive either.

[GoktimusPrime]

But the knockout shot wouldn't of hurt a fly.

Seemingly simple hits can be deceptively devastating, especially with brain damage/head trauma. When Samurai were disbanded during the Meiji Period, many former Samurai - now forbidden to carry metal swords - actually scored more kills using wooden swords (bokken/bokuto). This was because when they used metal swords they would often dismember their opponents, but leave them alive (albeit as amputees), whereas seemingly "less harmful" hits with bokken often dealt lethal internal damage.

I agree there is honour in disgracing a defeated opponent but their is no honour in taking a dive either.

gah, this is my fault... I should never had mentioned "honour" because there's no such thing as "honour" in a real fight. My bad.

In a real fight, the best moves are the ones that stop the fight and keep you alive - and if that move happens to be running away or surrendering, then so be it. The first thing any proper martial arts teacher should teach their students is how to run away. All the techniques we learn should be used if:
1/ Your attacker is obstructing your exit, in which case you engage them in a fight long enough before gaining the opportunity to flee (e.g. blocking a hit then shoving them out of the way and legging it)
2/ If retreat or surrender is not an option

So again, from a martial arts POV, if taking a dive or surrendering terminates the fight - then it's the right thing to do. Of course, sport fighting creates an artificial and unrealistic fight environment. If you don't want to fight, then just surrender to your attacker's demands (e.g. give them your money) or leg it. If you have to fight then just taking a dive will just make things worse for you (cos they'll just kick you while you're down -- the best time to kick someone is while they're down!! ).

[Bartrim]

Seemingly simple hits can be deceptively devastating, especially with brain damage/head trauma. When Samurai were disbanded during the Meiji Period, many former Samurai - now forbidden to carry metal swords - actually scored more kills using wooden swords (bokken/bokuto). This was because when they used metal swords they would often dismember their opponents, but leave them alive (albeit as amputees), whereas seemingly "less harmful" hits with bokken often dealt lethal internal damage.

But we aren't talking about Samurai killing people here. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has boxing experience on the forum and I can tell you that shot by Green wouldn't of knocked me out. I put this in this thread as I didn't think it deserved it's own thread. So from a competitive fighting point of view that fight was a farce.

[GoktimusPrime]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has boxing experience on the forum and I can tell you that shot by Green wouldn't of knocked me out. I put this in this thread as I didn't think it deserved it's own thread. So from a competitive fighting point of view that fight was a farce.

From a sport fighting POV I agree.

TBH this thread is just called the "Martial Arts Discussion Thread", and there are different kinds of martial arts, which I see as:
+ Traditional (used for fighting, self defence)
+ Sport (used for competitive sport fighting)
+ Health (used purely for maintaining fitness/health, e.g. non-combative Tai Chi)

While my personal preference is for traditional martial arts - and up till now it has been the predominant focus of this thread - I've never specifically stated that this thread was exclusively for traditional martial arts. So I think it's only fair that all kinds of fighting/martial arts be accepted here, as it wouldn't be fair for me to allow my personal bias to stop other people from talking about other kinds of fighting arts.

And there have been some genuinely good fighters produced from non-traditional arts. I've often said that we could take Bruce Lee and Mohammed Ali in their primes and stick them in a cage, I'd put my money on Ali. Bruce Lee was a rather ordinary fighter whereas Mohammed Ali was exceptional - and ironically had a better understanding of Yin and Yang than a lot of martial artists I've seen. Ali knew how to combine being hard and soft and how to execute it into a connective flow, or as he called it, "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee."

[GoktimusPrime]

Oh yeah, other kinds of martial arts I neglected to mention include:
+ Dance/performance martial arts, e.g. Capoeira, Modern Wushu etc.
+ Historical martial arts - by this I mean martial arts primarily studied for historical reasons and unlike other traditional martial arts, aren't appliable for modern day civilian self defence. e.g. Spanish Rapier Brawling, European Broadsword, Kenjutsu, Kobudo, Kyudo etc. Sports that have evolved from historical weapon arts (e.g. fencing, modern archery etc.) should fall under the "Sport" category.

Again, while these aren't necessarily my cups of tea, I would accept discussions about any of these sorts of martial arts here.

[Bartrim]

Just about to go to first martial arts lesson at the local KRMAS dojo

http://www.kumiai-ryu.com.au/mainpage.html

I'm pretty nervous