Martial arts discussion thread

[Lint]

What is the most realistic form of fighting these days? MMA surely, yeah it is a sport but it is also the closest thing you can get to a street fight without being in one.

I'm not bagging MMA, but some decent weapons skills (defending against and disarming) and learning to cope with multiple opponents would be quintessential to participating in a street fight. As far as I know MMA doesn't give you any tutelage for this because it is a sport but any good self-defense school would.

Don't get me wrong, someone who practices MMA would have the advantage in a punch up since you are trained to take and deliver punishment but as soon as weapons or multiple opponents are involved (typical in a street fight) it becomes a whole new ball game.

[GoktimusPrime]

Don't get me wrong, someone who practices MMA would have the advantage in a punch up since you are trained to take and deliver punishment but as soon as weapons or multiple opponents are involved (typical in a street fight) it becomes a whole new ball game.

Traditional arts also have a lot of conditioning exercises for building endurance such as:
* jabbing palms and fingers at a gravel-filled bag (known as Iron Palm or Iron Hand)
* bumping limbs against teach other (known as "knocking")
* gradual striking of parts of the body

Here are some videos showing conditioning exercises to harden parts of the body:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fKSoB2GByM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poN-ExZRQxw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im9NzBciths

[Hot Rodimus]

lol much to say but I am going to stay in the shower

[GoktimusPrime]

Some of what's demonstrated in the third video are more parlour tricks than conditioning exercises. You just need to be able to sift through the relevant stuff away from the 'smoke and mirrors.'

See the previous posts regarding "Penn & Teller's Bullshit!: Martial Arts" in:
Post 106
Post 107
Post 108
Post 111

That's a great episode of Penn & Teller's Bullshit! which goes about debunking a lot of the myths and mysticism surrounding martial arts.

[Hot Rodimus]

I'm not bagging MMA, but some decent weapons skills (defending against and disarming) and learning to cope with multiple opponents would be quintessential to participating in a street fight. As far as I know MMA doesn't give you any tutelage for this because it is a sport but any good self-defense school would.

Don't get me wrong, someone who practices MMA would have the advantage in a punch up since you are trained to take and deliver punishment but as soon as weapons or multiple opponents are involved (typical in a street fight) it becomes a whole new ball game.

I am in total agreance with what you have said.

[Hot Rodimus]

oh and I got bored in the shower and my skin got all wrinkly lol

i agree with conditioning, most martial arts will do this in some form wether it's hitting/kicking bags or pads, hitting eachothers bodies etc. I have done a lot of this in the past when I did traditional styles and I do agree with its purpose. Some of the guys I trained with would really hurt you when they blocked your attacks doing drills or could deliver a wicked forearm strike.

It only goes so far though and is not the answer to conditioning your body and mind to what happens in a real fight and the sort of abuse you can potentially recieve.

This sort of leads me into something else I have pondered and actually discussed with a number of well respected martial artists and self defence instructors.

I mentioned that the blocks of someones arms that have been conditioned can be very painfull but in reality the blocking that quite often gets practised in two man drills and sparring is not realistly achieved in a real scenario. Action is always quicker than reaction, it is a fact. Covering or evading tends to be more achievable, think boxing/kickboxing gaurd and other self defence systems that teach gaurds like 'crazy monkey' or 'spear' guards. These guards try to provide reaction from the defender which will allow them to react quickly and have a great chance of being able to absorb almost any attack as it can be applied quickly and instinctively (if trained correctly) and react accordingly with attacks.

I was ignorant to this sort of thing until I discussed it with some other martial artists (as said before) who really are well respected in the martial arts community and a lot of them have their own schools. It really did open my
eyes and changed the way I train.

Blocks are not totally useless, you may be fighting at a distance which allows you more time to react (this is not the norm though, think about how fights usually start with ppl in your face) or you are lucky and your skills are far superior than the attacker. But the idea that you will be able to block someones attacks at full speed and force 2 to three times or more and then recipricate is quite unrealistic.

Gok do you do any sort of conditioning? Also just wondering if you could describe your average training session for me?

[Bartrim]

Conditioning is very important. Since I've only been to 6 lessons I'm stuffed by the time we finish our warm ups

[Hot Rodimus]

Conditioning is very important. Since I've only been to 6 lessons I'm stuffed by the time we finish our warm ups

haha I can remember what it feel like Bartrim, actually if I was to undertake some of those conditioning exercises that I used to do now I would be very sore indeed. The body can be hardened fairly quickly but you also loose it fairly quickly too if you don't keep it up.

good to see your sticking with it too mate, just wondering....I saw in a post of yours that you have 2 kids, are they inspiration in learning martial arts?

[GoktimusPrime]

i agree with conditioning, most martial arts will do this in some form wether it's hitting/kicking bags or pads, hitting eachothers bodies etc. I have done a lot of this in the past when I did traditional styles and I do agree with its purpose. Some of the guys I trained with would really hurt you when they blocked your attacks doing drills or could deliver a wicked forearm strike.

It only goes so far though and is not the answer to conditioning your body and mind to what happens in a real fight and the sort of abuse you can potentially recieve.

This sort of leads me into something else I have pondered and actually discussed with a number of well respected martial artists and self defence instructors.

I mentioned that the blocks of someones arms that have been conditioned can be very painfull but in reality the blocking that quite often gets practised in two man drills and sparring is not realistly achieved in a real scenario. Action is always quicker than reaction, it is a fact. Covering or evading tends to be more achievable, think boxing/kickboxing gaurd and other self defence systems that teach gaurds like 'crazy monkey' or 'spear' guards. These guards try to provide reaction from the defender which will allow them to react quickly and have a great chance of being able to absorb almost any attack as it can be applied quickly and instinctively (if trained correctly) and react accordingly with attacks.

I agree. One's training should involve a variety of different activities. I think conditioning is useful, and I also think that covering and evading is extremely important too. They're all useful things to learn. When you use them entirely depends on the scenario of course.

Blocks are not totally useless, you may be fighting at a distance which allows you more time to react (this is not the norm though, think about how fights usually start with ppl in your face) or you are lucky and your skills are far superior than the attacker. But the idea that you will be able to block someones attacks at full speed and force 2 to three times or more and then recipricate is quite unrealistic.

Yep, I agree with this too. Most fights IRL will be surprise attacks that we won't see coming.

Remember that there are different types of blocking and deflecting. The basic level blocking is more long range, as that's how beginners train (cos it's easier) - but at more higher levels you have shorter range blocks; e.g. using your shoulder to deflect an incoming punch to the head because you didn't notice the attack until it's only a few centimetres from your head.

One exercise we sometimes do is fear simulations where we have to close our eyes and relax ourselves - then open our eyes where our partner will have a punch, kick, grab etc. only a few centimetres away from our body, and as soon as they see our eyes open they commence the attack, giving us less than a second to respond to an attack that's almost making contact.

Gok do you do any sort of conditioning?

Limb knocking, Pigua body striking and I also practice breakfalling which incidentally conditions your body. Sparring helps with conditioning too - even with protective gear on a lot of those hits hurt. But I very seldomly spar (although I can see its benefit).

Also just wondering if you could describe your average training session for me?

It depends... the focus of sessions can vary on things like theme or even climate. Our sessions include stuff like: forms (sometimes practised with weights), conditioning, drills, padwork, stretching, breathing meditation etc.

P.S.: We usually don't do sparring at our school, but I do sometimes do sparring outside of class with other martial artists.

Here's a pic of me sparring with a Muay Thai fighter - captured from a video at the exact moment where my hand strikes his ill-defended groin.

[Bartrim]

haha I can remember what it feel like Bartrim, actually if I was to undertake some of those conditioning exercises that I used to do now I would be very sore indeed. The body can be hardened fairly quickly but you also loose it fairly quickly too if you don't keep it up.

good to see your sticking with it too mate, just wondering....I saw in a post of yours that you have 2 kids, are they inspiration in learning martial arts?

Aint that the truth

Yeah I have 2 kids. They are part of the reason I started.Work was getting to me and I was getting annoyed at my kids quite quickly, karate is my way of venting about my business problems. Another reason is my personal fitness. My oldest boy is 3.5 and I plan on signing him up when he starts school as he is a bit ill desciplined due to my parents spoiling him rotten