Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 925

Thread: Martial arts discussion thread

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Join Date
    27th Dec 2007
    Location
    Sydney NSW
    Posts
    37,780

    Default

    Finally got to spar!! \(^O^)/

    ...but it's meant to be non-contact sparring, which feels completely counter-intuitive to me. How are you meant to spar without making any for of contact? When I spar I make _light_ contact, what I call "tip-sparring" where I just lightly tap the target (e.g. face, shoulder, chest, stomach etc.) like when someone taps you on the shoulder to get your attention or when kids play tips at school -- that amount of force (or lack thereof). It's enough for you to feel that I've made contact, but it doesn't hurt. But nonetheless, any time I even made light contact my partners or Sensei would be quick to remind me, "Hey, it's non-contact!"

    And I wasn't contacting just to be a Dojo-troll... but as I'm sure you can all appreciate, when you've had some martial arts training, when you go into a sparring situation you just go on automatic instincts based on your training. There's little conscious thought. And my training is to penetrate my opponent, not stop in front of them. So I had to work really hard to pull back all my moves, but it's hard and goes against everything I've been taught! It was a lot like the G1 cartoon - where everyone just shoots around each other like Imperial Stormtroopers, but hardly anyone actually hits their target!

    People just stand there throwing punches in front of each other like pew pew pew pew pew pew pew, but nobody ever lands a hit. Or imagine playing a game of Chess where it's against the rules to Check your opponent!

    The Sensei from Sunday was absolutely right -- all I had to do was get really close and they just didn't know what to do. Everyone else was just standing in their spots and throwing punches at each other, like Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots. I advanced in on my partners, so we ended up move around half of the hall (as my partners kept back-pedalling in desperate attempts to distance themselves away from me - but I can walk/leap forward faster than they can backstep!). I decided to give my first partner a sporting chance and I put one hand behind my back to fight him with one hand. He asked me, "What's wrong with your hand?" and I said, "Nothing. I just wanna give myself a challenge." But still, because I kept closing the gap, he just didn't know how to effectively counter me.

    With my second partner it was a similar story... so I just started walking aggressively toward her, but otherwise using no technique. I didn't have a proper guard up, no stances, I left myself completely wide open... the only thing was I was walking into her personal space - much like a schoolyard bully does when they want to intimidate you by invading your personal space. That's it. Then she tried to plow a hit into me... not very well, and I grabbed one shoulder and spun her around 90 degrees so that her back was facing me -- a precursor to doing a headlock, but I didn't go ahead with the headlock (being all non-contact and stuff)... I just had my hands on the shoulders... not even tightly -- but it completely freaked her out, so I stopped sparring with her after that.

    With my third partner... dear me... she would randomly block and punch the air. Like I hadn't even thrown a punch, she would do a block. What's she blocking?? Then when I throw a punch and stop it front of her, a few seconds later she'd block. Yeah, kinda late.

    With my next partner; a brown belt, I just decided to go on the defensive... he kept throwing all these punches at me which were easy to block. So then I used one hand... yeah, easy enough. Then I put both my hands behind my back and started dodging/evading punches or blocking them with my shoulders -- then I went on the offensive (with no hands)... so again, just needed to get in close before my partner started struggling with what to do with me. But even then, I wasn't even charging that hard (because again, I was seriously restraining myself for the sake of "non contact"). Then that was the end of sparring, and we went back to good old rote learning fighting against the air and practising katas (but no applications!) for the remainder of the lesson.

    I'm finding this non-contact rule... difficult to work with. Oh, and there was another newbie there today - first lesson tonight, but he'd done Kyokushin Karate before. And after the lesson when I spoke with him he did mention how incredibly easy everything felt. And one of the brown belts I spoke with before class did say that the learning curve in GKR is v e r y slow; and I said that I can see how that would be beneficial for children and people with underdeveloped motor skills (or learning difficulties)... but for adults with average motor skills and learning ability, I find it to just be too slow, and the brown belt agreed with me.

    Active associative learning >>>>>>>>>>> rote learning.

    Btw... is anyone still reading this? If not, then I'll stop logging my GKR journey here. I won't be offended at all if nobody wants to read about it - seriously. If only 1 or 2 people are interested maybe I can continue it in PM rather than hogging the thread here.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    13th Jun 2010
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    80

    Default

    I like to read them. Its a good insight into a newbs point of view in a new club. Helpful too, as you've tried different styles.

    Hunting: Alternators, Binaltechs. Loose or Boxed
    Hunting: Bravestar figure 'Thunderstick'
    Collection:My Collection

  3. #3
    Join Date
    5th Jul 2010
    Location
    Mornington Peninsula
    Posts
    2,901

    Default

    I'm still reading them. Too bad your not in Vic. I could show you what gkr karate has the potential to do
    Follow me on twitter:
    @Kal_ElofKrypton
    @Soundwaves_cast

  4. #4
    Join Date
    28th Dec 2007
    Location
    Ulladulla
    Posts
    5,294

    Default

    I read them. I find them quite interesting. Although I will say this. I think you are way to critical of every school you attend. It seems like you are on this quest to find the perfect martial art, which will never happen as none of them are perfect. It just seems like you go from school to school learning bits and pieces but not really getting anywhere because as no school can live up to your high expectations so you just move on.

    Mind you I say that only coming into this thread two years ago when I started actively training. I'm not 100% certain of your training methods or history prior to then.
    HATRED FOR JAMES VAN DER BEEK RISING!

    Still have some stuff for sale. Free pickup at Parra Fair
    http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=8503

  5. #5
    Join Date
    5th Jul 2010
    Location
    Mornington Peninsula
    Posts
    2,901

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartrim View Post
    I read them. I find them quite interesting. Although I will say this. I think you are way to critical of every school you attend. It seems like you are on this quest to find the perfect martial art, which will never happen as none of them are perfect. It just seems like you go from school to school learning bits and pieces but not really getting anywhere because as no school can live up to your high expectations so you just move on.

    Mind you I say that only coming into this thread two years ago when I started actively training. I'm not 100% certain of your training methods or history prior to then.
    I am enclined to agree I think you (goki) are expecting to much and underestimating what is right in front of you. You have to be an empty cup, but your cup seems to be full and all the training you do now just flows right off the top. As I've said before 3months is not a fair period to assess any martial arts properly regardless of prior experience. Your sinercism toward it won't give you a fair outlook on it. Don't get me wrong I'm not attacking you, but you need to empty that cup.
    Follow me on twitter:
    @Kal_ElofKrypton
    @Soundwaves_cast

  6. #6
    Join Date
    27th Dec 2007
    Location
    Sydney NSW
    Posts
    37,780

    Default

    I'm looking at everything from a self defence POV, because that's my reason for learning martial arts. It's what I told the GKR rep and I've said the same thing to my Sensei. I told the rep that I'm _not_ interested in learning martial arts for competition, and she assured me that GKR IS geared for purely self defensive training. It was under that assurance that I agreed to the 3 month trial period.

    My comments about my GKR training have been focused around one thing: Is this teaching me to fight? -- simple as that. I am NOT at any stage criticising it because it's different from Tai Chi or what not... I don't mind different, as long as it gets the job done and performs the function of teaching me how to fight, and how to fight well.

    Quote Originally Posted by KalEl View Post
    I am enclined to agree I think you (goki) are expecting to much and underestimating what is right in front of you. You have to be an empty cup, but your cup seems to be full and all the training you do now just flows right off the top.
    Honestly... compared with the traditionalists that I used to train with... my standards are LOW. I am NOT a high level martial artist... don't let the gut fool you. If you met any of the guys I used to train with, you'd know that I'm by NO means advanced and my standards really aren't that high -- by traditional martial arts standards.

    And if I'd initially thought that GKR was completely rubbish, I wouldn't have bothered paying $65 for the trial membership and rocking up to 1.75 lessons per week at $10 per lesson. And at each lesson I put in 110% effort, which Sensei has always praised me for (she sometimes uses me to motivate some of the lazier coloured belts, saying that "even this white belt is trying harder than you!"). But ultimately, it is up to GKR to impress me. That's what I'm here doing the trial for.

    It's like, well GKR.. here I am. Now prove yourself to me. I'm giving GKR everything I've got... now let's see what it gives me in return. And so far, I'm still waiting to be impressed.

    Quote Originally Posted by KalEl
    As I've said before 3months is not a fair period to assess any martial arts properly regardless of prior experience.
    Well dude, I'm not going to continue spending money on a school that isn't giving me desired results. Would you?

    Perhaps your GKR school is better... but all I can tell you is that the GKR schools around my area have yet to impress me. I mean, we all can only make judgments on things based on our own experiences, right? And so far, in my personal experience, I remain unimpressed with GKR.

    Let me put it this way, a lot of people are critical of Tai Chi as a martial art. And I don't blame them. A lot of Tai Chi schools are rubbish in terms of teaching self defence - my own Yang Tai Chi school included. If someone told me that they did trial lessons of Tai Chi and found that it taught them nothing useful for fighting, then fair enough. It doesn't mean that Tai Chi itself is useless for fighting, but I will concede that there aren't many good schools out there who can TEACH Tai Chi properly for fighting. Most Tai Chi is taught as a form of holistic meditation and exercise... some people don't even know it's a fighting form, they just think it's like Yoga or Pilates (which is understandable, as Tai Chi does offer similar health benefits as those).

    If, for example, you went and learnt Tai Chi because I told you that it's an awesome martial art (and I do believe this)... but you came back and said, "Gok! This Tai Chi school I'm going to is crap! All we do is slow form meditation and practice! And when we do Push Hands, we already start in contact. That's stupid... as if you're gonna start a real fight like that! These people are way too soft, they would get absolutely creamed in a real fight!" etc. -- then I'm not going to disagree with you. A lot of Tai Chi schools _do_ teach like that... even in China... and I think it's silly (from a self defence POV).

    So I'm not necessarily saying that GKR itself is a "bad style," but so far I've yet to be impressed by the GKR schools in my local area. Ultimately -- the teacher/school is more important than the style. Since my Chen Tai Chi teacher stopped teaching I've been searching for another school to train at. The Yang Tai Chi school is the best (re: least worst) of what I've found in my area so far... but unfortunately they only have one lesson a week and it happens on the one day where I have to work late. My timetable will change in September-October, so if it frees up my Wed evenings then I'd like to resume my Yang Tai Chi training... unless I find something better in the interim.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    28th Dec 2007
    Location
    Ulladulla
    Posts
    5,294

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post


    Honestly... compared with the traditionalists that I used to train with... my standards are LOW. I am NOT a high level martial artist... don't let the gut fool you. If you met any of the guys I used to train with, you'd know that I'm by NO means advanced and my standards really aren't that high -- by traditional martial arts standards.
    Gok I just went to Yellow Pages and searched Martial Arts Schools in the Blacktown area (I just picked that as a generalisation. I know you live out west I'm not sure where... even though I have been to your place) and I got quite a few listings. Now if you do have low standards then one of the schools in that long list should be able to provide you with what you are looking for. If you can't find anything satisfactory then I think your standards are higher then what you initially believe.
    HATRED FOR JAMES VAN DER BEEK RISING!

    Still have some stuff for sale. Free pickup at Parra Fair
    http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=8503

  8. #8
    Join Date
    27th Dec 2007
    Location
    Sydney NSW
    Posts
    37,780

    Default

    Umm... okay?

    Anyway, allow me to simplify what I said in my previous post(s) like this:
    Any opinions expressed by me about GKR are based on my experiences with individual schools that I have participated in and do not necessarily reflect an extension of how it may be practised or taught in other schools.

    Here's a quick sketch I made contrasting my experience of Karate at my local GKR dojos, with my experience of Okinawan Goju Karate in a dojo in Japan.


    The practitioner of traditional Okinawan Karate asked me to punch him as hard as I could, as many times as I liked. He didn't flinch. At my GKR Dojo, if I so much as tap my partner they cry foul.

    I understand the need for safety in training. As I've mentioned many times on this thread, martial arts teachers have a legal duty of care. Having said that...
    1. Safety shouldn't mean that training is so far "sanitised" that it becomes counter-productive to teaching students how to fight. Tip sparring works on the same principle as Touch Footy. Instead of hard contact (e.g. punching or tackling), you just tip and that counts as a "hit". It doesn't hurt, but it gives you tactile feedback letting you know that you've been "hit" (or "tackled" in the case of Touch Footy). Could you imagine trying to play Non-Contact Footy?
    2. Insurance will cover schools/instructors so long as reasonable care is taken. Insurance companies recognise that martial arts is a potentially dangerous activity... that's why you take out insurance. But so long as reasonable measures are in place, then insurance companies will cover you. e.g. providing students with safety equipment, giving reasonable instructions for safety (e.g. tipping only, no full strengthed strikes, instructors have valid first aid training, coaching qualifications etc.). Teachers/schools get in trouble is where there are reasonable measures aren't taken and are found to be negligent and/or derelict in their duty of care. If you try to provide a reasonably safe training environment and an injury occurs, then you're covered. It's the same legal duty of care that school teachers have.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    6th Jan 2009
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    269

    Default

    Gok I am truly suprised, hence my first post in such a long time. I would have thought that someone so experienced in martial arts like yourself would have heard of the reputation GKR has?

    GKR in martial arts circles is commony referred to as 'Amway Karate' and derives very little respect from all outside it's braiwashing like influence. Google it and you will see what I refer to, its all a pyramid scheme to make money for those at the top of the organisation (hence poor classes, sub par sensei's or sensei's who are only green belt etc but get fast tracked to black so the can open a dojo or start teaching). Even the syllabus is to be laughed at (though I think you are finding this out).

    In the past I have trained in Shito ryu and Goju Karate for many years, when I bought a new house and moved to a new area and looked for places to train the only place remotely close was GKR, it was never a consideration and I opted to travel 30 - 40 mins each way to a decent school.

    If recognised for what it is, GKR can have some benefits, mostly for kids I think as the fitness, coordination and discipline can be good for them but that is all. Google and you shall see.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    28th Dec 2007
    Location
    Ulladulla
    Posts
    5,294

    Default

    One of the few times I felt dissapointed with a lesson last night. It was freezing cold. We got warmed up and pushed pretty hard by Sensei who kept us warm by constantly having us on the move doing stuff. So I was looking forward to a real challenging lesson as I thought it would be a fast paced lesson to keep us warm and prevent injuries. It was the exact opposite. After the warm we worked on de-escalating volatile situations for the rest of the lesson. It was the first lesson when I haven't used my rehydration formula at the end as I felt fine.
    HATRED FOR JAMES VAN DER BEEK RISING!

    Still have some stuff for sale. Free pickup at Parra Fair
    http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=8503

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •