Hasbro bans KOs & 3rd party goods at Botcon

[kup]

just because hastak haven't produced a good springer yet doesn't mean they won't in the next few years. Some toys are produced just to keep the dcopyright to the name active. Sure the Warbot defender was fairly good, but I hold out hope that there will be a generations Springer and with luck, it'll be sweet as.

The thing is why do I want to wait 'years' for a 'what if' that may never happen when I have an excellent representation of a 'Classics Springer' right now available for me to buy that is likely to be better than anything Has-Tak can produce?

It is available for me now, it is good and it triple changes! The only reasons that I can think of anyone not wanting it is: 'a) unaffordable/too costly' or 'b) Not an official product' and both of them are purely subjective.

For those like me who can afford it and not worried about 'officialism' but a good representation of the character (and not a KO), the 3rd parties are providing what fans want and Hasbro is not. I believe that the 3rd party explosion is a result of that otherwise it would have been just as prevalent before City Commander as after it.

...City Commander..an upgrade kit that came about because HasTak's idea of Ultra Magnus was just to release white primes...

[Sky Shadow]

The thing is why do I want to wait 'years' for a 'what if' that may never happen when I have an excellent representation of a 'Classics Springer' right now available for me to buy that is likely to be better than anything Has-Tak can produce?

It is available for me now, it is good and it triple changes! The only reasons that I can think of anyone not wanting it is: 'a) unaffordable/too costly' or 'b) Not an official product' and both of them are purely subjective.

"Not an official product" isn't subjective, Kup.

What I notice is somewhat interesting is that a lot of the people here who aren't interested in third-party toys (Griffin, Goktimus, me, etc.) are ones who have never taken a real break from Transformers toys since day one in the eighties. And I think one of the reasons is that there's no real urgency to our collecting - consciously or subconsciously we accept that Hasbro may or may not eventually get around to doing things, but we don't need the immediate gratification of having the things they haven't done yet. What we do get from HasbroTakaraTomy is amazing enough - we never thought we'd get a Straxus mould, or Bludgeon that came with samurai swords, or a Nightstalker toy etc. and yet we now have them twenty years later. What we get from HasTakTom is amazing.

On the other hand, Kup - you've completed your US G1 collection in record time and perhaps it seems like you are being 'neglected' because not everything exists "right now".

People aren't stealing Hasbro's intellectual property because it 'neglects' us, they do it because they make money out of it.

[kup]

"Not an official product" isn't subjective, Kup.

But choosing to add it or not to add it into your collection is and that is what I am saying

People aren't stealing Hasbro's intellectual property because it 'neglects' us, they do it because they make money out of it.

I don't think the money making side of it is in question. The point is that they are able to make money because there is demand for the stuff they sell which Hasbro is not adequately satisfying.

When it comes to 'patience', again, I don't care about waiting 20 years for something that may or may not happen when I have a perfectly good alternative 'existing' right now. Since I don't have any misgivings or ideologies about a lack of officialism, I can buy it and enjoy it. My collecting ideology is not about officialism but of a good representation of G1 characters which to me, the 3rd parties are hitting the mark a lot more than Hasbro.

I don't find several of the current official toys as 'Amazing'. MP Rodimus was a mess and the upcoming Bruticus is lacking. However for the toys that I consider Hasbro to have made right, I don't care to buy a 3rd party alternative for. An example would be the IGear Ironhide and Ratchet, I don't care to buy them because I am happy with the Henkei ones.

[GoktimusPrime]

just because hastak haven't produced a good springer yet doesn't mean they won't in the next few years.

Sure the Warbot defender was fairly good, but I hold out hope that there will be a generations Springer and with luck, it'll be sweet as.

Some fans may not hold as much faith in Hasbro and would rather get a Warbot Defender than risk trusting Hasbro. I wouldn't hold my breath for a HasTak Springer - but I'm not "desperate" enough to get a WD either. If HasTak releases one then I'll grab it for sure, but if they don't then oh well... I'm no worse off.

HasTak probably won't produce anything as large as the Hercules version of Devastator, I doubt it would pass any version of their drop test, but then there is a rumour that they are doing a re-issue of Fortress Maximus so you never can tell,

Fort Max mould already failed the current drop test, that's why they couldn't release RiD Fortress Maximus (Brave Maximus). TakaraTOMY could reissue Fortress Maximus, but I've heard that the larger reissues have shelf warmed. I still saw some of the larger Encore toys when I was Japan earlier this year.

I think it's the right of HasTak to defend their IP however they like, within the law, but I'm not sure that making add-ons and accessories for collectors (which is something that just cannot fit in a mainstream retailers business model) is stealing on behalf of the third parties. If anything it promotes sales and aftermarket value of official products.

I agree. I personally see the third party products as having a symbiotic relationship with HasTak's Transformers as both parties benefit (e.g. the accessory kit for Reveal The Shield Deluxe "G2" Optimus Prime), whereas 3rd party action figures (e.g. Not-Arcee etc.) are parasitic - they profit from using Hasbro's IP likeness but Hasbro doesn't benefit from it.

What I notice is somewhat interesting is that a lot of the people here who aren't interested in third-party toys (Griffin, Goktimus, me, etc.) are ones who have never taken a real break from Transformers toys since day one in the eighties. And I think one of the reasons is that there's no real urgency to our collecting - consciously or subconsciously we accept that Hasbro may or may not eventually get around to doing things, but we don't need the immediate gratification of having the things they haven't done yet. What we do get from HasbroTakaraTomy is amazing enough - we never thought we'd get a Straxus mould, or Bludgeon that came with samurai swords, or a Nightstalker toy etc. and yet we now have them twenty years later. What we get from HasTakTom is amazing.

That's a pretty cool observation there. I'd never thought of it before, but now that you mention it I think you're right.

People aren't stealing Hasbro's intellectual property because it 'neglects' us, they do it because they make money out of it.

If third party makers were doing it for the fandom, then they'd sell the products at cost (only charging enough to recoup cost of production).

[kup]

Another point to discuss:

Why do people who do not collect or are against 3rd party toys think that people who do are doing so because they are "desperate" to get the character or any toys? I am not desperate and don't know of any other 3rd party collector who is, I am getting it because it's available and I like it.

A non-TF example:

I really like the MOTU characters of Buzz-Off, Roboto and Clawful but I did not buy their MOTUC figures. Yes, I would really love to see fully articulated modern takes on those characters but I found their MOTUC figures to be lacking when it comes to my own tastes so I did not buy them. Since there are no 3rd parties that I am aware of for MOTUC figures, I am fine to be without those characters than official toys that I don't like - Mattel does not get my money.

On the other hand, if a MOTU 'inspired' 3rd party appears which sells new figures or upgrades for those characters that match my expectations, I would start to buy them. If it's 3rd party upgrades, both Mattel and the 3rd parties benefit because I will be buying both. If it's a complete 3rd party figure, I will buy that one instead of Mattel's.

To re-apply the same mentality back to TFs - I had absolutely no interest in the RTS G2 Prime. I simply wasn't interested at all. However when I saw the Battle Tanker upgrade complete with a trailer and functioning 'laser' sword, it prompted me to immediately seek out the official toy. If it wasn't for the upgrade, I would have done without an RTS G2 Prime and not think twice about it as I have other official (and unofficial) toys of characters that I don't have which did not meet my expectations.

It's not about being "desperate" but rather someone selling me something that I like without having any misgivings if it's official or not. If that guy wasn't selling that something and Hasbro wasn't either then it would simply mean no purchase at all just as I have no current MOTUC Clawful, Buzz-off and Roboto despite me wanting toys of those characters very much.

[Prowl]

My collecting ideology is not about officialism but of a good representation of G1 characters which to me, the 3rd parties are hitting the mark a lot more than Hasbro.

That says it all to me. Now 90% of my collection is official but if a well done 3rd party product (not KO) is offered to me then I will buy it without guilt or hesitation. I understand those who only buy official products & if that is their stance then fine by me.

The FP non insecticons is a great example as I don't believe that Hasbro would ever release robots that transform into insects. That is not cool now & as a kid it was never cool.

[kup]

That says it all to me. Now 90% of my collection is official but if a well done 3rd party product (not KO) is offered to me then I will buy it without guilt or hesitation. I understand those who only buy official products & if that is their stance then fine by me.

The FP non insecticons is a great example as I don't believe that Hasbro would ever release robots that transform into insects. That is not cool now & as a kid it was never cool.

To be fair, they have recently released a transformer that turns into an insect but it is hardly a representation of the G1 Insecticons:



I was looking at my collection and despite my liking of 3rd party toys and the perception that I prefer them over official toys; only about 3% (5% at the very most) are unofficial.

[GoktimusPrime]

I don't believe that Hasbro would ever release robots that transform into insects.

I beg to differ

[Prowl]

I beg to differ

Prowl has egg on his face. Of course I know about the beast wars & animated figures I was referring to a generations release of the original insecticons more than anything. I should have been clearer in my opinion.

I am pretty sure that my non insecticons are my only 3rd party items out of 100 or so transformers & they fill a space nicely for me.

[kup]

Here is another new example of the 'symbiotic' relationship that Gok was referring to when it comes to 3rd party upgrades:

Although I acknowledge them as pretty decent molds, I never had an interest in buying a DOTF Skyhammer and certainly no desire for a ROTF Mindwipe.

However after Headrobots announced their latest Alpha prototypes now I am strongly thinking about buying those molds that originally never got my attention. If Hasbro releases repaints of them, it will be a pretty good bet that I will indeed buy them when otherwise, I wouldn't have looked at them twice (or at all).

http://www.seibertron.com/transforme...rageous/24354/

Now depending on how well received these upgrades are, it will create extra demand for those official molds than previously.