Scabs and Leeches

[kup]

Taking away the bile, and ignoring the inconsistency in condemning 3rd-party producers for 'ripping off' Hasbros IP (which for the most part consists of reimaginings of old Diaclone and Microman toys) while giving them a pass on pieces like, say the Universe Sunstreaker mold, SS is pretty much right IMO. 3rd-Party additional add-ons for other 3rd-Party pieces are just as valid as any other add-on for any other piece.

As far as the morality of it goes, well...I aim for amorality as often as is possible, and especially for TF collecting. If I started getting all moral about it I'd have to consider that I blow hundreds of dollars a year on collecting toys while millions of people starve to death all over the world every year, and then every time I looked my TF collection I'd end up thinking about how many starving kids the money I've spent on those complicated plastic puzzles could have fed. It's kind of depressing, so I prefer to down a few beers and fool around with my MP10 and my PE Night-Ops Not-Reflector instead.

I am not sure about the morality but I haven't liked any of the '4th party' stuff and the only one that I did buy was horrible beyond believe.

I guess that I don't see any point to them as I would only buy a 3rd party item if I am already liking it for what it is or I wouldn't buy it which makes 4th party items a bit redundant.

[Sky Shadow]

Taking away the bile, and ignoring the inconsistency in condemning 3rd-party producers for 'ripping off' Hasbros IP (which for the most part consists of reimaginings of old Diaclone and Microman toys) while giving them a pass on pieces like, say the Universe Sunstreaker mold, SS is pretty much right IMO.

I think you have a great argument in there, but Universe Sunstreaker isn't the best example since Takara owned the original design and produced the homage. The one toy that would be a strong case is Classics/Henkei Jetfire. It's clearly a homage to a mould no-longer owned by Hasbro and currently owned by Bandai, TakaraTomy's rival. (There could be a similar argument made of the upcoming Generations Shockwave, depending on who currently owns the Astro Magnum design.)

But I'd prefer a world with no Classics Jetfire, no Generations Shockwave and no third (or fourth) party toys rather than the one we live in, where Transformers forums dedicate half their front pages and much of their content to products that aren't Transformers.

[liegeprime]

I aint against any 3rd party, but as with any product, I only get what I want. Hey, it's my money and Ill use it on whatever , however I want to. Plus I collect a lot of stuff anyways not just TFs anymore. Besides I believe that if their product aint good, it's not gonna sell and they wont profit any from it, but if a product indeed is good and it does answer the need of the market consumer then it will prosper and will have a following/support.

The 3rd party stuff I get is for my enjoyment and enhancements of these wonderful toys I collect. IPs and all that issue does not concern me anymore, Hastak's rolling in money already, anyhow Hastak's not concerned about me anyways as well as the final consumer - their more concerned of THEIR target consumer which are Walmart, Target et al. So I just don't see why I should concern myself and get all riled up with supposedly their issues. Since Hastak doesnt seem to be concerned in completely protecting their IPs anyway anytime soon ( bar the barring of 3rd party stuff in Botcon) shows it's not a major concern for them, so WTH do I care. Besides Hastak's not gonna stop producing Tfs anytime soon as a result of all the 3rd party stuff... and if they said before that were not doing so and so because of all the 3rd party stuff out there - look at the recent encore devastator set. in other words if it will be profitable you bet they will do it.

Hehehehe Scabs and leeches, well that's about right - scabs cover a wound ( could be interpreted as a hole in Hastak's market which the 3rd party ppl have exploited in order to sell their product- i.e. they discovered a need and answered it with their goods) and leeches - 4th party ppl who have discovered where there is a leak in the 3rd party stuff that although not so necessary they exploit by sucking out every bit of of blood they can get - to sell their products. nice.

[MindsetOverhaul]

Hehehehe Scabs and leeches, well that's about right - scabs cover a wound ( could be interpreted as a hole in Hastak's market which the 3rd party ppl have exploited in order to sell their product- i.e. they discovered a need and answered it with their goods) and leeches - 4th party ppl who have discovered where there is a leak in the 3rd party stuff that although not so necessary they exploit by sucking out every bit of of blood they can get - to sell their products. nice.

Thankyou Liege, they're my sentiments exactly!

i much prefer to see the Has/Tak -vs- 3/P discussions carried on down here rather than the continued derail of the "Banned @ Botcon" thread.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

I think you have a great argument in there, but Universe Sunstreaker isn't the best example since Takara owned the original design and produced the homage. The one toy that would be a strong case is Classics/Henkei Jetfire. It's clearly a homage to a mould no-longer owned by Hasbro and currently owned by Bandai, TakaraTomy's rival. (There could be a similar argument made of the upcoming Generations Shockwave, depending on who currently owns the Astro Magnum design.)

But I'd prefer a world with no Classics Jetfire, no Generations Shockwave and no third (or fourth) party toys rather than the one we live in, where Transformers forums dedicate half their front pages and much of their content to products that aren't Transformers.

Just to be clear: I was talking less about the toy than the Not-quite-Lamborghini-Gallardo alt-mode, which almost-infringes upon Lamborghini's IP in much the same way as CC almost-infringes on Ultra Magnus. It's not a toy-to-toy comparison, sure, but it is an IP-to-IP comparison. I can't find the clip, but it really got summed up best by the Futurama episode with the 'We-resemble-but-are-legally-distinct-from-the-Lollipop-Guild' bit.
Outright KOs and the Faith Leader type stuff is a different kettle of fish IMO, but all that means is I'm not gonna knowingly buy them myself.

Me, I'd rather have Classics Jetfire and whatever 3rd-party pieces take my fancy, and ideally a world where people didn't die from obesity-related diseases in some countries and starve to death in others. In the meantime, should, would, and could are all things that never happen, and things are the way they are.
I do reckon more boards should do what TFW2005 has done and have a non-3rd-party feed though, just as a courtesy measure.

[reillyd]

You never feed a troll. If you do, the troll always wins.

[MindsetOverhaul]

Ode to a Grasshopper - that is an excellent point. It is a definite splice of Reventon/Gallardo. There's a whole thread of classics comparisons at Sector70.

I know you recognize the irony of our hobbies -vs- the real world, that's a good thing but you and i and anyone else who knows it should do something about it or shut up. i've volunteered for charity work, sponsored children, done respite care for families with disabled children for a few years and still regularly donate to the mighty Sea Shepard. I have a house and 2 children and my Mum lives with us too. No matter what, i'll always be a #ucking hypocrite if i try to preach about it and consume at the rate at which i do. (btw, i'm not calling you a hypocrite)
Transformers mix with politics and charity like Religion mixes with science and logic

You never feed a troll. If you do, the troll always wins.

c'mon bro, no-one's trolling this thread. don't be passive aggressive, just call some-one out if you think they're (i'm) being a jerk.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

I know you recognize the irony of our hobbies -vs- the real world, that's a good thing but you and i and anyone else who knows it should do something about it or shut up. i've volunteered for charity work, sponsored children, done respite care for families with disabled children for a few years and still regularly donate to the mighty Sea Shepard. I have a house and 2 children and my Mum lives with us too. No matter what, i'll always be a #ucking hypocrite if i try to preach about it and consume at the rate at which i do. (btw, i'm not calling you a hypocrite)
Transformers mix with politics and charity like Religion mixes with science and logic

For totes, that's where...

As far as the morality of it goes, well...I aim for amorality as often as is possible, and especially for TF collecting...It's kind of depressing, so I prefer to down a few beers and fool around with my MP10 and my PE Night-Ops Not-Reflector instead.

...these bits factor in.
The only reason I mention it here is 'cos if we're going to go on about scabs and leeches as regards this particular hobby/addiction, well...that's a hat we all have to wear simply by virtue of collecting toys made form oil-based materials assembled by underpaid Vietnamese and Chinese factory workers. Again, I'm not passing moral judgement/preaching on that (as in I'm specifically not doing so what with the whole Judge-Not approach I generally prefer, what with my being a cheerful nihilist), it's just the reality of life in a Developed nation. I'm just glad I was born into one of the good parts as opposed to the bad parts - what are the odds, hey?

I prefer the term 'subjectively-oriented morality' to 'hypocrisy' btw.

[Lord_Zed]

Well I don't see how any of these 4th party products are morally any better or worse than the 3rd party products. The only real difference is so far they have almost all universally sucked. Which does make them easier to condemn I suppose as lacking imagination or effort, but really I don't see a big enough difference to be up in arms about it.

Not to say that I've thought to hard about it, I just enjoy collecting robots that I like who transform, Transformer or not. I'll leave the deep moralizing and ethics discussion to others.

[MindsetOverhaul]

For totes, that's where......these bits factor in.
The only reason I mention it here is 'cos if we're going to go on about scabs and leeches as regards this particular hobby/addiction, well...that's a hat we all have to wear simply by virtue of collecting toys made form oil-based materials assembled by underpaid Vietnamese and Chinese factory workers. Again, I'm not passing moral judgement/preaching on that (as in I'm specifically not doing so what with the whole Judge-Not approach I generally prefer, what with my being a cheerful nihilist), it's just the reality of life in a Developed nation. I'm just glad I was born into one of the good parts as opposed to the bad parts - what are the odds, hey?

I prefer the term 'subjectively-oriented morality' to 'hypocrisy' btw.

Fu@k, i like you!