The Soapbox

[jaydisc]

Great idea (the column)... been looking forward to it. I would recommend that you include the article's title in the thread title as I suspect this will be the first of many, e.g.

The Soapbox I: TFM or TFTM
The Soapbox II: What is a Scalper? ()

That way, the resulting discussion will be compartmentalized and future columns won't be drowned out in page 9 of a never-ending thread.

Now, the meat.

I disagree with your analogy of the scores/soundtracks. I find the TFTM soundtrack makes me cringe as if I'm watching Ricky Jervais give his career performance. The music is so dated, so cheesy, so cheap. On the other hand, the TFM soundtrack is simply a payola joke. Lastly, the TFM score is decent, but also loaded with cheap musical tricks. So to me, all three are poop, with the TFM score being the least poop. A few musical scores that I can think of off of the top of my head that are vital contributors to the films that contain them, are Aliens, Gladiator and Batman Begins.

With the exception of the soundtrack, I adore TFTM. It was mind blowing to me as an 11 year old. It introduced mortality (on a planetary scale!), the death of lead characters, and a completely new cast, including the almighty Unicron (do you think Spaceball 1 was influenced by Unicron?). To me, it was as profound and as powerful as The Empire Strikes Back.

TFM employs the standard Hollywood playbook for quick money: Special effects, tits, popular music and bad jokes based on contemporary culture (Prime: "my bad"). Unfortunately, that means it also comes with flawed science (Maggie/hacking/viruses), wasteful unnecessary scenes (Autobots at the Witwickys), incomplete special effects (too much blur), some glaring plot holes (Barricade), and an anticlimactic ending (uh, touch the bad guy with the Allspark). Knowing Bay, I knew it was to be exactly like that, so my expectations were lowered, and I still like it, but I'm sure that's due to my emotional ties to the franchise, as it is just Hollywood smut.

[Demonac]

Hmmm....quite a lot to think about there.

Regarding the soundtrack, I agree with STL. I think the '86 soundtrack to be superior.
I haven't heard the '07 'soundtrack', but the score is quite forgetable. Steve Jablonsky is no Bernard Hermann, Jerry Goldsmith, or James Horner. I have to agree with Jay in that the '86 soundtrack is cheesy...but a bit of cheese here and there is fun (except that horrid title track).

I also agree with Jay's summarization of the '07 movie. I enjoyed the film the first time because my expectations were so low, but since then, I find it extremely hard to watch the damn thing. I find myself just skipping to the transformers...you know...transforming. THAT was cool. Too bad about the rest of the movie.
It's true both films are essentially extended ads ('86: toys, '07: GM cars), but at least the '86 one had depth. And quotable dialogue.

But, hey...whatever people enjoy is fine by me...I'll be a closet elitist. :P

[Robzy]

TFM employs the standard Hollywood playbook for quick money: Special effects, tits, popular music and bad jokes based on contemporary culture (Prime: "my bad"). Unfortunately, that means it also comes with flawed science (Maggie/hacking/viruses), wasteful unnecessary scenes (Autobots at the Witwickys), incomplete special effects (too much blur), some glaring plot holes (Barricade), and an anticlimactic ending (uh, touch the bad guy with the Allspark). Knowing Bay, I knew it was to be exactly like that, so my expectations were lowered, and I still like it, but I'm sure that's due to my emotional ties to the franchise, as it is just Hollywood smut.

QFT!!!

Regarding the soundtrack, I agree with STL. I think the '86 soundtrack to be superior.

Me too! I love the Score...

I also agree with Jay's summarization of the '07 movie. I enjoyed the film the first time because my expectations were so low, but since then, I find it extremely hard to watch the damn thing. I find myself just skipping to the transformers...you know...transforming. THAT was cool. Too bad about the rest of the movie.

It's funny, I saw the movie 3 times at the cinema, and have watched it countless times on DVD... but the more I watch it, the less I 'watch'! I tend to just skip to when the Autobots arrive on earth, and then to the "climactic" battle! Everything else seems to get less interesting with every viewing!

[jaydisc]

Me too! I love the Score...

I forgot about the scored parts. They are indeed good. It's the songs on the soundtrack that kill me.

[SilverDragon]

I forgot about the scored parts. They are indeed good. It's the songs on the soundtrack that kill me.

YES! To me, the song choices were utterly random. With the exception of 'What I've Done', none of them are IN the film...well, most of them, anyway. Plus, most of them have no relation to Transformers anyway. They were just pandering to the 'average teen' audience.

[STL]

Just watching the movie again w/ my lil sister who's on holidays and man that first kill still gets u.

But what actually reminded me of one of my major gripes was Daniel. No, he's not annoying but heck, Blurr and Arcee abandoned him in mid-fight - running on w/out him. Prime'd be rolling in his grave!

[Paulbot]

No, he's not annoying but heck, Blurr and Arcee abandoned him in mid-fight - running on w/out him. Prime'd be rolling in his grave!

I always get annoyed that the Autobots leave Blaster behind on Earth to hold off the Decepticons all by himself while they flee in their shuttles. Ultra Magnus also takes off before Arcee gets in as well. "We can't wait" says Springer when Arcee wants to wait for Hot Rod and Kup to make it back to the city. I guess the Autobots are a bit colder in the future.

[dirge]

A well constructed argument, mon ami.

I'm not sure I agree with your point of view - but then the eclectic film buff in me sees a lot of problems in TFTM. Both suceeded in different ways and failed in different ways.

TFTM as a film was _far_ too inaccessible for the general public. Which would be fine if it wasn't released in cinemas, however it was. It does provide a better sense of epic and the focus is far more on the Transformers, which certainly appeals to those with a developed interest in the film. Commercially, it flopped, but within it's own established Universe it did quite well.

TFM is far more accessible, partly because it focussed far more on humans, partly because it showed the battle between Autobots & Decepticons from a human perspective - something TFTM (and most TF cartoons since G1) failed to do. Because of the emphasis on including those uninitiated into the TF Universe, the movie was shallower in its story, and lacked that sense of epic. Because of the accessibility it did well commercially, however the reaction from the established fandom was mixed.

It could be argued that TFTM is a failure because it failed to spawn a sequel. But then, The Blues Brothers flopped at the box office and has ended up with a massive fanbase and an enduring legacy (a sequel was made over 20 years later), so commercial success isn't always the best measure.

It could be argued that TFM is an artistic failure because of plot holes and shallow character development. Still, it has spawned a sequel and taken TF sales & profile to a level not seen since Beast Wars. Artistic success isn't always the best measure.

So for me, both are successful, in different ways. The "popcorn" movie fan in me likes TFM and the Transfan in me likes TFTM, and sees genuine merit in both. The "popcorn" movie fan in me can find TFTM too intense to watch through (in some moods) while the Transfan in me finds some aspects of TFM thoroughly pointless in a Transformers show (such as the Maggie storyarc).

[GoktimusPrime]

I agree w/ dirge. The beauty of TFM is that you don't have to be a Transformers fan to like it. A lot of my friends who are by no means Transformers fans enjoyed watching TFM.

TFTM the other hand is incomprehensible if you're not a Transformers fans. Just read any movie review of TFTM and you'll see critics pasting it because they had absolutely no freaking idea as to what the blazes was happening in the story. Orson Welles once described Unicron as being a really big toy that eats little toys. It's no secret that Welles wasn't a fan of that movie at all (which is regretable for him considering that it was his final role). It's a great movie if you're a fan of the G1 cartoon - as it's a sequel to Seasons 1 & 2, forming bridgework for Season 3. It's really just an 80 minute episode of the cartoon. The Beast Wars movie was the same.

But yeah, I like/appreciate all the Transformers theatrical movies for different reasons.

Transformers movies released in theatres:

1986: Transformers The Movie


1999: Beast Wars (movie)


2007: Transformers (movie)

[Bartrim]

So for me, both are successful, in different ways. The "popcorn" movie fan in me likes TFM and the Transfan in me likes TFTM, and sees genuine merit in both. The "popcorn" movie fan in me can find TFTM too intense to watch through (in some moods) while the Transfan in me finds some aspects of TFM thoroughly pointless in a Transformers show (such as the Maggie storyarc).

Thats pretty much all I feel is needed to be said. If I want to watch (as dirge called it) a popcorn flick I'll watch TFM as it is a popcorn flick that features transformers. If I'm feeling overly transformersy (is that a word?) then I watch TFTM.

BTW great column STL. Look forward to the next one.