When Did One Continuity 'Drop The Ball' While Another One 'Caught' It?

[Sky Shadow]

I've been thinking recently that there are a many examples of Transformers lore where I think one canon/continuity really stuffed up while another did it nearly perfectly.

For example, I love the idea of Pretenders in Masterforce. Like all good Transformers, they crash landed millions of years ago. Unlike most Autobots, the Cybertrons actually picked the dominant species correctly and disguised themselves as humans. They're immortal human-sized humans who've observed and interacted with us throughout history - absolutely fantastic. The Destrons made themselves look like horrible demons and scared us for a long while until they were imprisoned and then they escaped. They're all great - I love every one of the characters of the Masterforce Pretenders - they even make crap toys worth having.

On the other hand, the G1 comic - while my nostalgic favourite Transformers medium - completely dropped the ball on Pretenders. And then trampled it. A lot. The first Decepticon Pretenders were disguised as large monsters who then went and terrorised a bunch of humans. And, since - according to Scorponok - "these six warriors bear no resemblance to Decepticons, the Autobots will never suspect their true identities until it's too late!" Um... okay, but won't they still try to stop the rampaging giant monsters even if they don't realise they're really rampaging giant Decepticons disguised as rampaging giant monsters? The Autobot Pretenders were created because Optimus Prime's personality - still stored as... um... data on Ethan Zachary's 5 1/4" floppy disk - travelled through the internet and spied on the Decepticon Pretenders' creation (seriously, I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried). Now the Autobot Pretenders look like giant humans in armour. Bizarrely this does actually fool Scorponok and the Decepticon Pretenders... for about one page. The best thing about this first incarnation of comics Pretenders is that the execution was just so bizarre and camp that I got to read a story in which Skullgrin is a Hollywood movie star. Oh, and there was that story where Cloudburst just happened to find a planet of thirty-foot humanoids and almost got to make out with a hot alien chick until he blew it. (The second-generation comic Pretenders who show up have no origin, they just appear. Bludgeon? Longtooth? Thunderwing? Why are they Pretenders and when exactly did they get their shells?)

On the other hand, I think the comics were ingenious in addressing the Dinobots' creation - since there were no dinosaurs four million years ago, Shockwave crashed in the Savage Land (already a part of the Marvel Universe) and the Ark disguised five Autobots as the Savage Land's dominant species: dinosaurs. Simple and clever.

In the cartoon, however, Hound goes to a museum and brings back some tourist snaps:

WHEELJACK: If only we had some dinosaurs working for us. They'd really shake up the Decepticons.

RATCHET: Mmm. I'm with you, Wheeljack. We could build robot versions of those oversized iguanas -- if it was okay with Optimus Prime.

OPTIMUS PRIME: Robot dinosaurs might be useful. You have my authorisation.

What? That's it? Other than the fact that for some reason Prime's lines make me want to punch him or the scriptwriters in the face... the Autobots can just make Transformers now? Why don't they just make an army of them and... I don't know... actually beat the Decepticons?

The potential examples are endless - for me Primus is better than the Quintessons, Powermaster Prime is better than Ginrai, cartoon Headmaster Spike makes more sense than comics Headmaster Spike, 'The War Within' is better than 'War Dawn' and so on.

So I was wondering if anyone else thinks one continuity did something better than the others and why? (i.e. "X was just betterer" or "such-and-such-a-medium suxxors" will not suffice.)

[roller]

im a crazy mothf.

I think Machine Wars rips all over the Beast Wars universe.

The political ramifications that Bw Megatron, after stealing the golden disk, do not compare with Machine Wars Megatrons "Blow everything up and escape" plan.

episode 3A of Machine Wars " A Planet of death" was 10 times better then stupid "Transmutate" Ooooh we can all squeeze in a Euthenasia metaphor, but transmutate sounded stupid

[Sky Shadow]

episode 3A of Machine Wars " A Planet of death" was 10 times better then stupid "Transmutate" Ooooh we can all squeeze in a Euthenasia metaphor, but transmutate sounded stupid

Um... Roller... did these episodes of Machine Wars happen solely in your head? Where can I get them?

[Geminii]

OPTIMUS PRIME: Robot dinosaurs might be useful. You have my authorisation.

What? That's it?

To be honest, many of the 80s episodes were kind of cranked out without a lot of time and effort put into what might make deep and abiding logical and narrative sense to a bunch of 30-something nitpickers (e.g. yours truly) 20 years later. As long as it suspended a kid's belief for the two seconds it took to move on with the plot, they ran with it.

These days, they might, I dunno, have some Autobot protoforms or old laser cores turn up and have an accident occur during the scanning process, like the scanner locking onto a TV show or Skyspy flying over a Jurassic animatronics display.

[TheDirtyDigger]

I think everything should be retconned into one continuity and all the stories we find cringe-worthy written off as dream sequences.

[Sky Shadow]

These days, they might, I dunno, have some Autobot protoforms or old laser cores turn up and have an accident occur during the scanning process, like the scanner locking onto a TV show or Skyspy flying over a Jurassic animatronics display.

Actually, I can guarantee that these days the Autobots would go to an animatronic dinosaur theme park and one of them would break three exhibits. Megatron would rebuild the dinosaurs into attack drones and on their unveiling these 'Dinobots' they would attack the Autobots. Then a MacGuffiny Deus Ex Machina would give these Dinobots sparks.

[Paulbot]

I think the UK comics did "post-Movie" better than the US cartoon. In the cartoon the small Autobot army hiding on the Moonbase and on Earth suddenly had complete control of Cybertron again once the battle with Unicron was done which never made sense to me.

[GoktimusPrime]

Heheh, yeah I agree that Masterforce's Pretender origins is much better than the G1 comics' - it's something I've been saying for about 18 years now, but don't mind me.

Oh, and there was that story where Cloudburst just happened to find a planet of thirty-foot9m humanoids and almost got to make out with a hot alien chick until he blew it.

Cloudburst nearly suffered Death by Snoo-Snoo!



While I agree that Kaneda succeeded over Budiansky in terms of utilising the long-standard tradition of mass-shifting to make Pretenders human-sized, I don't necessarily fault Budiansky for later placing Cloudburst and Landmine on the planet Snoo-SnooFemax... by that stage he'd already established that the Pretenders were giants, so it was impossible to make the Pretenders interact as convincing robots disguised as humans - the next best thing was to place them on a planet with giant humans, well giant women (Femaxian men are human sized), and have them interact with those giants. It would've been awesome if they could've crossed over with Macross/Robotech and interacted with the Meltrandi... but legal issues would make that impossible.

"What is Snoo-Snoo?"

"Allow me!"

I think Furman tried to make the best out of a less than ideal situation with Pretenders. Knowing that they couldn't function as disguises, he focused on making their shells more like suits of armour that could also work as personal reinforcements - but of course with the massive weakness that if the shell is destroyed it fries the owner's brains.

(The second-generation comic Pretenders who show up have no origin, they just appear. Bludgeon? Longtooth? Thunderwing? Why are they Pretenders and when exactly did they get their shells?)

Yeah, their Pretender origins aren't explained - nor are the origins of the second-batch Headmasters and Targetmasters (e.g.: Nightbeat, Needlenose etc.). Although I've always assumed that after Scorponok developed Pretender technology that he would've shared it with the Decepticons on Cybertron so they would've been able to replicate it - and in the case of Mega Pretenders, improve on it.

To be honest, many of the 80s episodes were kind of cranked out without a lot of time and effort put into what might make deep and abiding logical and narrative sense to a bunch of 30-something nitpickers (e.g. yours truly) 20 years later. As long as it suspended a kid's belief for the two seconds it took to move on with the plot, they ran with it.

The G1 comics were also aimed at kids too.

--------

I think that the G1 comics did a better job of explaining the origins of Micromasters than the G1 animé/manga. In the animé/manga, Micromasters were basically used by Autobots to help humans. Their small size made human environments more accessible to them for search and rescue operations - and not surprisingly the most prominent Micromaster group was the rescue patrol.

In the G1 comics, Micromasters were introduced as a technology created on Cybertron that made Transformers more fuel-efficient. This was something that would in turn become linked with Beast Wars' Maximal Upgrade and Beast Wars Megatron's reference to G1 Transformers as "archaic Energon guzzlers."

[Sky Shadow]

(Sniff sniff) "Hmm... do I have bad BO? Come on, guys - you'd tell me if I smell, right?"

[GoktimusPrime]

...now I'm gonna have to sniff you next time we meet you know. That's right, I have to!