Classics/Universe canon

[GoktimusPrime]

In the Universe Armada Mini-Cons thread there was a discussion about which continuity the Universe Armada Mini-Cons belong to. Hasbro has marketed them as being "Transformers Universe: Armada Series." So which is it? Do they belong to Universe continuity (i.e.: continuation from Beast Machines), Armadaverse continuity or Classics continuity (i.e. Timelines continuity) -- which is it?

I would actually say that they are part of the Armadaverse continuity.

Here's the thing...
1/ Classics itself isn't a single contained continuity. When people (myself included) refer to Classics continuity, we're really talking about the appearance of Classics in the Timelines continuity (Games of Deception) - which is an alternate continuation from G1 (and negating G2).
2/ Not all Classics characters belong to the Timelines continuity. e.g.: Classics Jetfire is part of the IDW mainline G1 continuity.


H'okay - so far we've seen that there are at least two different continuities where Classics Transformers belong to. But wait, there's more! In All Hail Megatron, aside from the canonical debut of the Masterpiece Seekers, we also see two "Classics 2.0" Universe toys in it as well! Namely Prowl and Sunstreaker.

Prowl


Sunstreaker


Neat, huh?

So basically, there is no "Classics/Universe" continuity, but rather Classics/Universe characters get slotted into different continuities such as IDW-G1, Timelines, All Hail Megatron - and yes, even Armada (in the case of the aforementioned Mini-Cons)... and there may be Classics/Universe characters appearing in other continuities in the future (who knows).

[Pulse]

To me , Minicons were born & flourished in the Armada Era. Minicons were "Armada's Thing"...

So even though Hasbro wants to rename these Minicons underneath the Universe Banner, It doesn't necessarily mean that we have to as well.

So therefore to me , Universe Minicons = Armada Minicons

But whether or not I'd consider picking up this upcoming Minicon 12-pack, the answer would have to be "no". If a Minicon isn't translucent (eg. the Cyb Shadow Recon Team), then I'm really not interested in it...

(I can feel the flames burning... )

[kup]

It does seem that the 'Classics' minicons only belong to the Timelines Classics comic and the rest of the 'regular' G1 characters can be slotted as representing said characters in any G1 continuity they appeared in (Marvel, Sunbow, IDW, DW, etc).

Basically, Classics are modern takes on G1 characters despite continuity so they belong to all of G1.

[GoktimusPrime]

Pulse: as kup pointed out not all Mini-Cons belong to the Armadaverse continuity - for example the Classics Mini-Cons are not part of Armadaverse but part of the Timelines/Games of Deception continuity.

Well, if the packaging says Universe-ARmada

obviously they were pulled into the 'Universe' universe by Unicron, pulled from the Armada universe like the Autobot Smokescreen- see Universe comics #1

But Universe Prowl and Sunstreaker appear in the All Hail Megatron universe which appears to be utterly unrelated to the Universe universe.

And if they're calling these Mini-Cons "Universe: Armada" I don't see why they couldn't have called Classics 2.0 "Universe: Classics." Just another reason why I don't like Hasbro's decision to collectively lump everything into this new "Universe" banner. (-_-)


Two universes... same freakin' name. (<_<) (>_>)

[kup]

Calling the Classics Minicons 'Armada' proves that Hasbro either doesn't care or does not understand its own product line.

Minicon does NOT automatically mean Armada since they have appeared in other continuities since. If they wanted to tribute Armada in some way within Universe, then why didn't they use actual Armada minicon characters??

One of the things that motivate me to ignore the Universe Classics and go straight into Henkei aside from the quality is that Henkei are actually considering its releases as a single line not a 'one fits all' line which Hasbro was destined to screw up.

Hell, they couldn't handle a single continuity line without introducing stupid crap like 'Prowl 2' so how are they going to cope with a multi-continuity line such as Universe without screwing it up is beyond me.

[roller]

.


But Universe Prowl and Sunstreaker appear in the All Hail Megatron universe which appears to be utterly unrelated to the Universe universe.

And if they're calling these Mini-Cons "Universe: Armada" I don't see why they couldn't have called Classics 2.0 "Universe: Classics." Just another reason why I don't like Hasbro's decision to collectively lump everything into this new "Universe" banner. (-_-)


Two universes... same freakin' name. (<_<) (>_>)

Prowl and Sunny appear in all heil megatron because the comic people or Hasbro couldnt be bothered to think up a new character design, or to give exposure to a new toy to entice readers to buy the toy.

I like to think they are 1 universe, they do have the same name.

[GoktimusPrime]

They may have the same name, but they're clearly NOT the same continuity.

[roller]

Well, if the packaging says Universe-ARmada

obviously they were pulled into the 'Universe' universe by Unicron, pulled from the Armada universe like the Autobot Smokescreen- see Universe comics #1


As for the Classics/Universe:

Classics is different from Universe, remember, 'Universe', no matter which year, is still Universe.

[FFN]

I apologise in advance if I misread something somebody said or whatever, as I did not sleep last night.

And if they're calling these Mini-Cons "Universe: Armada" I don't see why they couldn't have called Classics 2.0 "Universe: Classics." Just another reason why I don't like Hasbro's decision to collectively lump everything into this new "Universe" banner. (-_-)

Hasbro resurrected the brand name Universe so that the line can have toys (new and old toolings) from all possible continuities and previous toylines.

Universe = universal. Everything and anything can be put in without being tied down to a particular design style or storyline. Plus, obviously, Hasbro planned this line to coincide with the 25th Anniversary, making it convienient for them to throw in characters and designs from EVERY continuity. No overall theme or story = you can do whatever you want.

I think Tomy might have some problems if they have to explain (storywise) why Beast Wars Cheetor is hanging around with Armada Hot Shot and G1 Hound, assuming they are all released in Henkei or some other line.

But Universe Prowl and Sunstreaker appear in the All Hail Megatron universe which appears to be utterly unrelated to the Universe universe.

From what I can tell, the toys "belong" to whatever stated 'series' is printed on their packaging. For example, the 'Classics Series' characters are in a new G1 continuity of some sort where Galvatron (who is not an upgrade of the original Megatron) has reunited the scattered Decepticon forces, presumably after some significant Autobot victory. Naturally, you can also consider them 'any G1', because their bio stories don't specifically say what continuity or universe the story is based upon.

Yeah, in All Hail Megatron, it just the case of IDW and Guido Guidi wanting to use the toys in their comic. Hasbro doesn't really use comics to promote toys anymore, I don't think.

Calling the Classics Minicons 'Armada' proves that Hasbro either doesn't care or does not understand its own product line.

Minicon does NOT automatically mean Armada since they have appeared in other continuities since. If they wanted to tribute Armada in some way within Universe, then why didn't they use actual Armada minicon characters??

In Hasbro's product line, Mini-Cons have only appeared in the Unicron Trilogy (with is connected to Timelines) and the Classics version of the Marvel G1 continuity (which is also connected to Timelines). The latter being a technicality because they were Cybertron toy molds, but the Cybertron line was ending, so they put them in Classics instead when the Movie release date was moved back.

Hasbro can declare these Mini-Cons as Armada (as in Unicron Trilogy) Mini-Cons for they are new characters, and thus, we can assume they were previously unseen in the Armada fiction. Part of it has to do with Brand Association. Armada was ridiculously successful. The kids who see Armada as *their* G1 maybe be attracted to a set of Mini-Cons who are sold as 'Armada series' merchandise, and generally people identify Mini-Cons as belonging to Armada.

[dirge]

From what I can tell, the toys "belong" to whatever stated 'series' is printed on their packaging.

Yeah but you have to admit that Hasbro sometimes slap the wrong 'series' on the toy. How the **** is Air Attack Optimus Primal an Autobot from RiD?

Yes, I know the history of the toy, and understand why it was released during the RiD era. But that doesn't mean the toy should have been marketed purely as an RiD Autobot, with no reference to Beast Machines.

The simple fact is that Hasbro marketing ppl often attach series names to toys without really knowing/caring (or whatever) which series label would be most appropriate.

In the case of the MiniCons, the fact that these MiniCon moulds got held back - coupled with the fact that the original versions were slapped with Classics marketing - makes them out of place to someone no matter what you call them.

I'm not going to get all "Archer is evil incarnate" about it, but Hasbro's sloppiness (at whatever level, for whatever reason) is the reason this is so controversial.