The Soapbox IV: Top 10 Characters of All Time

[kup]

I don't understand why Armada was so successful since both the toy line and the cartoon were absolute crap. However it did end up being a financial success.

I have a couple of theories though:

1. After the horribleness of Beast Machines toys (damn you Archer!), people were just glad that Transformers had gone back to being robots other than technorganic Mutant freaks

2. People had already been broken into consuming any product no matter how crap it may be and convince themselves that is great.

[Pulse]

You have no sense of charity.

Minicons = Charity

Overlord = Over my dead body

[jaydisc]

I don't understand why Armada was so successful since both the toy line and the cartoon were absolute crap. However it did end up being a financial success.

I think this statement beautifully illustrates the obvious disconnect between so many older collectors and Hasbro's modern business decisions. There seems to be a growing number of older, crotchety collectors who have nothing but disdain for nearly everything Hasbro does, while seemingly forgetting the obvious fact that they are not marketing to collectors.

[kup]

I think this statement beautifully illustrates the obvious disconnect between so many older collectors and Hasbro's modern business decisions. There seems to be a growing number of older, crotchety collectors who have nothing but disdain for nearly everything Hasbro does, while seemingly forgetting the obvious fact that they are not marketing to collectors.

hmm..NO.

Armada sucks because of that, they had sucky toys and a bad cartoon with gimmick centric designs. Many of them were gimmick first and transformer second.

I am sure that if I were still a kid and had experienced proper progressive Transformer lines before that (G1, BW, RID) I would not be all that happy about Armada or perhaps I have always been a collector at heart?

Armada was a regression in design and toy technology. Many of the figures had appallingly simplistic designs (often thanks to the dumb Minicon gimmick) and lacked articulation which design wise were a step back from Beast Wars which by then was already over 5 years old. I am also preety sure that a kid would be smart enough to see the blatant attempt at trying to 'exploit' the popularity of Pokamon with their 'gotta catch all Minicons' cartoon.

The day I see Hasbro producing a new modern line with properly thought out designs, then you would see me change my 'negative' tone to new things that Hasbro does.

Edit: I think that I did change my Negative view on a modern line. Aside from the endless repaints, I did very much enjoy many of the movie figures.

[jaydisc]

Armada sucks because of that, they had sucky toys and a bad cartoon with gimmick centric designs. Many of them were gimmick first and transformer second.

Further evidence of a disconnect as the line was hugely successful.

[kup]

Further evidence of a disconnect as the line was hugely successful.

I am not denying that and that is my question. Why?

[jaydisc]

My answer is that children and collectors have different desires, expectations, pleasure centers, etc.

[dirge]

jay, for me the magic of Transformers has always been the cleverness of the Transformation. And that doesn't strictly mean a _complex_ transformation, but a good design. In general, Armada put little effort into the transformation and a _lot_ of effort into gimmicks that, frankly, weren't always that clever.

If I'm understanding kup correctly, I think he's saying that Armada's focus was "off" compared to most Transformers toylines.

As a very long time collector, I was unimpressed with Armada for that reason, but at the same time, I generally liked the (smaller) Energon toys and Cybertron toys. Some of the Cybertron toys were designed really well.

I can't speak for anyone else in this respect, but I'm often annoyed by Hasbro's lack of care/attention - and their penchant for repainting is a good example of this. I don't expect them to do everything 100% right, but there are times when they just don't seem to be trying - such as the slew of variant Movie repaints (blue paint in cylinders, First Strike Prime). I can live with repaints, even those that aren't tributing G1 or BW or... whatever... so long as the repaint offers something. A great example, again from the movie line, would be Salvage - a new name, very different paint mask, and using a good mould.

STL... okay. I'll disect your list.

1) Optimus Prime - not really a very interesting character, in concept. But yeah, he's iconic. So fair enough, I'll live with that one.

2) Megatron - again, iconic. A more interesting character than Prime, overall.

3) Bumblebee - a good character, used a lot, developed well. I agree.

4) Starscream - no way. Very well known, but not really a character I've ever found especially interesting. He did receive a lot of attention (if not character development), despite being a fairly simple character. As an icon, he's fairly well known, but I'd easily rank Soundwave above Screamer.

5) Soundwave - Iconic, well developed in the G1 comic (if not the cartoon). The concept of the character is good, even if Sunbow really didn't use it.

6) Devastator - Not really much character there, but as an identifiable icon - which is where you seem to be coming from, yeah he's right up there.

7) Grimlock - A good character, developed well whenever used. Not usually the nicest guy but the flawed characters are often the most interesting. Iconic and just plain fun!

8) Unicron - Okay, again not a whole lot of character, since he's really just a giant eating machine. But in terms of profile, he's up there.

9) Blackarachnia - Not really iconic, but like Grimlock she's a really good concept which has been developed well.

10) Hot Shot - bwahahaha. The kids in the ad breaks had more character development than anyone in Armada. I'm sorry.

My ten? Well, I'm taking their icon status/recognition into account, but really I'm looking for the character that have made TFs memorable...

1) Megatron - the embodiment of evil for a generation.

2) Soundwave - such an icon, "that cassette guy" probably the best known G1 Decepticon. Sure he wasn't much more than a storage for the cassettes in the G1 cartoon, but the comic gave him the depth he deserved.

3) Optimus Prime. Yes, he's Captain America trapped inside a truck, but he's too iconic to ignore, despite being a shallow character. If the character was more interesting to begin with he'd be #1.

4) Grimlock - A really good concept which was developed well. And an icon.

5) BW Megatron - a much more sinister and cunning version of the G1 version

6) Optimus Primal - The flawed hero is just much more exciting. This guy is forced to be a hero, and does a good job. And he's not Mr Perfect as Optimus Prime is often portrayed.

7) Blackarachnia - just a really well developed character, who added so much to Beast Wars.

8) Bumblebee - I'll lump the G1 & Movie boys together here, since they're really representing the same concept. The small, tough, Autobot makes the franchise accessible.

9) Cheetor - A character who developed very well through Beast Wars. And he even managed to survive as the same concept into Beast Machines, despite that series throwing out the history of many BW characters. The concept of Cheetor is fairly unremarkable, but he was just done so well.

10) Ginrai. Yeah, he's obscure. Yeah, he's technically a human in charge of a transtector. But, like Optimal Primal, he had the mantle of leadershp thrust on him - and also had to deal with becoming a giant robot. During the course of the Masterforce cartoon his character was well developed from the young, carefree, traveller to the bloke who accepts he has to save the world.

Honourable mentions to go Shockwave (comics) & Sky-Byte. Tarantulas probably would have made this list if BW hadn't been canned before all was revealed about him.

Yes, I realise I haven't included much from the later years. Armada was rubbish in terms of character depth, I haven't seen Energon or Animated, nor enough Cybertron to really comment on the characters there (hence my ignoring those series). RiD's character were generally shallow, although Sky-Byte was just so much fun!

[Tober]

Chances are if you don't understand the success of Armada then you are not seeing it from the perspective of a typical male child.

There are HUGE amounts of marketing research that go into understanding/exploiting the child market. McDonalds and Disney are notorious for it. Hasbro most probably does it too.

Male children are stimulated by bright colors, fast movement, loud noises, catchy music and violence. Transformers offers them that and then represents it in the material form of toys. In western cultures many families with children have both parents working creating greater income to spend on their kids who are being raised by brightly colored talking characters on their televisions.

EDIT:

My answer is that children and collectors have different desires, expectations, pleasure centers, etc.

Yeah, that's the one.

Must hit 'reply' faster...

[kup]

Chances are if you don't understand the success of Armada then you are not seeing it from the perspective of a typical male child.

There are HUGE amounts of marketing research that go into understanding/exploiting the child market. McDonalds and Disney are notorious for it. Hasbro most probably does it too.

Male children are stimulated by bright colors, fast movement, loud noises, catchy music and violence. Transformers offers them that and then represents it in the material form of toys. In western cultures many families with children have both parents working creating greater income to spend on their kids who are being raised by brightly colored talking characters on their televisions.

EDIT:



Yeah, that's the one.

Must hit 'reply' faster...

I still don't get it, possibly because I have never been influenced by popular hype even as a kid. When I found myself dedicating or following a franchise or cartoon/toy line it was always because I enjoyed it not because most other do.

So I am pretty sure that if I were 6-10 years old when Armada was released; I would have gone 'meh'; specially if I had previous exposure to older but better designed toys.