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Thread: Reflections on Beast Machines [SPOILERS, duh...]

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  1. #1
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    I agree with Gok about most of what he said in the character 'development'.

    Cheetor was excellently done and his character progression believable from Beast Wars to Beast machines. As a result he is my favorite BM character.

    Silverbolt was so emo that he may as well have dressed in black and tattooed tears under his eyes. The Silverbolt I knew would have felt depressed and guilty but would have endevoured to get over it for the sake of his comrades. This Silverbolt never really could and the end doesn't count because he didn't progress out of the depression but Primal actually wiped the cause of it indirectly by defeating Megatron.

    Rattrap and Rhinox was what pissed me off the most and Gok covered it fairly well.

    Optimus Primal becoming a new age hippy/ Religious extremist, I did not see that as logical. He basically became a religious extremist oposite on the opposite side of another, Megatron. It was very difficult to sympathize with his cause just as it would be difficult to sympathize between Muslim extremists and the Ku klux Klan. His was not a logical progression since Primal would not have carried on religiously like that. He was proud of his Cybertronian (hence Technological) heritage and would have tried to over throw Megatron to restore thing how they were original, not to push the superiority of Organic/Technorganic.

    Megatron was covered by Gok fairly well. BW Megatron's aspirations were very much the same as G1 Megatron's. He wanted to rule the Predacons and conquer Cybertron. He didn't want to 'become cybertron' or change it in any radical way, he just wanted to rule it and have the Maximals in oppression just as he believed the Maximals were oppressing the Predacon population. As Gok mentioned, he felt pride of his progressing Beast modes because they granted him the power that he needed to accomplish his then goals. Beast Machines rewrote his whole agenda as if this Megatron had come from a parallel universe or was some sort of impostor.

    BW Megatron aspired to accomplish what G1 Megatron couldn't and that is not the same character we see in BM.

    With Blackarachnia I agree when it comes to logical progression but she lost much of her charm in the process.

    Waspinator, no comment. Gok covered it.

    I have to add the following. Beast Machines had G1 tributes throughout the show but they were terribly handled and felt forced. Many concepts such as The Oracle which was a radically different thing in concept than what we saw in G1 and the Optimus statues that we saw around had no real point in the overall story (Why was the statue holding the Golden Disc?? Didn't the people writing this show watch Beast Wars?!?). The tributes did not become important and logical within the story as in Beast Wars. They had to change the essence of G1 concepts that was taking in an important part of the story making them radically different things or the tribute was just a tiny pointless scene such as Primal talking to the Prime statue.
    ________
    Yamaha Dt-2
    Last edited by kup; 22nd March 2011 at 02:39 PM.

  2. #2
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    As most of us know, Ben Yee has a pretty optimistic/positive approach to all things Transformers - but I once had a conversation with him where he pointed out a few things that he didn't like so much about Beast Machines which I agree with...

    1/ Way too much running. The Maximals spent a good chunk of the first season just fleeing from Vehicons. *yaaawwwwwn*

    2/ "The seeds of the future lie buried in the past." Yes we get the point, do you have to keep hammering it into our skulls?! Just STFU already! It makes the number of times they said "With great power comes great responsibility." in the Spiderman movies look good!

    ...I still shudder every time I accidentally trigger off my Air Attack Optimus Primal's voice chip and he says that line.

    But on a more positive note, I do like most of the new characters introduced in this series...

    + Nightscream - I didn't mind him. He was the new awkward kid on the block and he served that purpose fine. Better than Rattrap's awkwardness which was just out of place. Nightscream was a lost kid who was - as far as he and the other Maximals in the Beast Machines cartoon were concerned - the sole survivor of the Vehicon Holocaust (the other survivors who appeared in Universe never met up with him). And before then he was probably a civilian... so I can forgive some of his inadequacies. Rattrap on the other hand is a seasoned veteran of the Beast Wars - what's his excuse?

    + Botanica - the idea of a sentient plant Transformer was very unorthodox/unconventional, but I thought it was a very cool one and kudos for effort on originality. It just really sucks how we never got a toy.

    + Diagnostic Drone - as a non-living/sentient drone and non-main support character, I thought it was pretty cool... much cooler than previous AI drones in Beast Wars (Naviko, C-Navi, D-Navi - although they were kinda cute... but I like Diagnostic Drone's "English Butler" like demeanour).
    =
    =
    In Beast Wars, the Navi-class drones all sounded like Japanese schoolgirls. In Beast Machines, the Diagnostic Drones sounded like Jeeves.

    + Obsidian & Stryka - a whole new breed of Vehicon generals who made the Maximals fertilise their technorganic garden! I like how they had accents previously unused before in Anglophone Transformers animation. I also really like how Stryka wasn't overtly effeminate in any way. She didn't have buxom curvacious proportions (after all, not all male TFs have buff beefcake proportions either, why should all female TFs have to look like vixens?) - no lipstick (no lips!) and no stereotypical effeminate personality traits either... she was never a pansy and never a damsel in distress. But at the same time, she wasn't overtly macho either, they did let her touch on her feminine side (such as when she admired the beauty of the VR sim that Rattrap put her in). So she was still a 'woman' but in a very strong sense - a positive female role model! And before anyone says, "but she's an Evil Vehicon!" remember that these generals weren't really evil in terms of being immoral or amoral. They're moral characters because they're both doing what they think is the right thing to do - they're fierce patriots and they will serve and fight for Cybertron to the end. And since Megatron and the Vehicons were in charge of Cybertron, they followed the Vehicon directive as part of what they considered was their patriotic duty. Their morals may have been misguided, but they were noble nonetheless.

    Noble/Savage: when Mutant Beasts first came out, I thought that they were a pretty lame concept (still do) but mostly because most of them were executed badly as toys. Poison Bite was okay, but the others were kinda lame. Noble/Savage is an example of how cool a character/toy like this can be when the concept is executed well - and extreme kudos to HasTak for actually making the toy based off the show model which I initially thought would've been absolutely impossible! He's also an interesting character (once Megatron's Spark was removed)... sure, cognitively he only functioned at the level of a dog, but as his name implies, despite being a savage wild beast, he was still very noble and honourable at heart. It's like Transformers meets the Jungle Book! ;D

    Tank Drone #53: man, that drone was so cool. I loved how he looked the same as Tank Drone #12 but had the personality disposition (or lack of) of Tank Drone #38 who of course, has the same personality template (or lack of) as every other Tank Drone. Too bad these suckers never had Sparks or maybe they'd start developing individual personality traits like the Clones in Star Wars... but then again, that's also the reason why Megatron never gave them Sparks in the first place.
    Last edited by GoktimusPrime; 14th January 2008 at 09:34 PM.

  3. #3
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    What bothers me about Beast Machines is that it really takes the previous concept of Transformers and tries to dismantle it.

    Megatron is essentially trying to bring back the G1 concept of Transformers, and Primal spends much of the series fighting this. I found myself agreeing with Megatron - which isn't the writers' intention. I didn't actively root for Megatron because I was aware of the fact that I'm not supposed to, but I sure didn't root for Primal either.

    Yes, the storyarc's conclusion backed the entire continuity into a corner, but more than that it stripped away the whole Robots in Disguise premise and left us with nothing but morphing aliens. SPOILERS I actually prefer the ultimate fate of Cybertron in Headmasters where the entire planet blew up END SPOILERS. At least the Transformers are still Transformers in the end of that storyline.

    Yes we see radical changes in the characters, and while some of those changes don't really justify themselves, I'm more annoyed that, as a Transformers series, I can't be happy with it when I find myself agreeing with the guy called Megatron - the character who is by definition meant to be evil.

    The writers really didn't pay respect to the lore that came before. We lose the Robots in Disguise, we lose the two landmark characters of Primal & Megatron, the G1 references were oblique and didn't always match up with the G1 concept, nor the references in Beast Wars. Even the history of the stories we saw in that series were largely disgarded...

    SPOILERS
    There's no Vok, no Unicron agenda, Earth is now completely irrelevant, no mention of Dinobot's sacrifice - or even his existence IIRC.
    END SPOILERS

    ... While Beast Wars made a specific attempt to pay respect to G1, Beast Machines just did whatever the hell it wanted with the lore that had come before it.


    Eagerly waiting for Masterpiece Meister

  4. #4
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    I really, really enjoyed Beast Machines. The dark animation is a pleasant change!

    As for the characterisations, don't forget that all of the survivors of the Beast Wars were infected by Megatron's virus, which has been portrayed as very serious. I understood this to have been the reason for many of their changes, and a very traumatic change at that. Based on this, I see not problems with Rattrap's change. Also, Silverbolt was ripped out and put into a Vehicon - further messing him up.

    As for Megatron, there is some disparity in the time passed - I got the feeling the Maximals had been "unconcious" for some time - giving Megatron an opportunity to further his apocalytpic plans (which he started in BW with the golden disks).

    As for continuity, there is heaps of time to cover before BW, including before or during G1. I have no problem with the result in Beast Machines and think it is a very mature outcome, much deeper and symbolic than the endless search for energon in G1, or the random acts of interstellar violence in the post-1986 G1 movie.

    Now I will willingly be led to the stake for burning
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirge
    nor the references in Beast Wars. Even the history of the stories we saw in that series were largely disgarded...
    That was actually Hasbro's decision, so the writers had no choice but to disregard it.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    That was actually Hasbro's decision, so the writers had no choice but to disregard it.
    As a viewer, and transfans, it makes no difference to me. The end result is still the same. FWIW, I hold Hasbro responsible for the misstep I consider BM to be - not the writers, who were being paid to to Hasbro's dirtywork.

    Now, where did I put that bonfire? Tiby, do you wanna grab this large peice of wood and help me look?


    Eagerly waiting for Masterpiece Meister

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