Still legally and ethically wrong. Regardless. I hate to break it to you, but just because something exists, doesn't mean you're entitled to have it.Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Because when I see people talking about obtaining pirated wares, I think, "Why don't you just buy the real thing?" -- when it comes to content that isn't available, the answer is simply, "Because the real thing doesn't exist." But this isn't the case with KOs. Maybe if people were to starting counterfeiting toys long before they were officially released, then that would be a different issue.So again, I'm not saying that I think that downloading content is some kind of innocent and saintly practice by any stretch of the imagination... but I think it's a different kettle of fish than buying KOs, because with the latter the choice of purchasing the legit product already exists.
It's still piracy, plain and simple. The sites were filling a need, that's a certainty, but it was illegal and whoever owned the rights (and didn't take action against the sites) were okay with turning a blind eye.What do you guys think about downloading scans of comics that are long out of print? e.g. remember when certain web sites used to host scans of the entire Marvel G1 comic book run (both US and UK)? These sites have since been shut down or removed all their scans since Titan Books acquired the licence to reprint the Marvel comics (and now it's IDW). I'm happy to buy these reprints (though IDW's quality is pretty shocking and nowhere near as good as Titan's). There used to be a time when you'd come across someone who's unfamiliar with the G1 comics, and you could direct them to one of the fan sites that hosted the scans. Nowadays I just tell people to go buy the reprints.
But what did you guys think about these sites BEFORE Titan acquired the reprint licence and they desisted from sharing their scans? I remember when they took their scans down, some fans were livid... but I was in support of that decision because it made perfect sense that once a company acquired the licence, it meant that the content would soon become commercially available, and thus the administrators of those sites stopped sharing the content.
It comes back to the argument that just because something exists or has existed somewhere, doesn't mean its your right to access it and get it whenever you want. The sense of entitlement (across society, and please, I want to be clear that I'm not targeting you personally) across society is fucking disgusting these days. The "I want my Transformers episode now!" mentality is fine, but you didn't make it, you haven't accessed it through the channels that it has been released (because it isnt available to you, through no fault of your own), and you aren't entitled to it.
While personal use is (generally considered) acceptable by licence holders, there's a difference between a mate taping a show and shipping it to you (or the modern equivalent of him/her recording the show, capturing it, encoding it, uploading it, and sending you and only you a direct link to their personal website hosting it), and someone capturing a show and uploading it for all and sundry to take what they want.
As I said, it would be hypocritical for me to complain about piracy, but the blasé attitude some people show towards it isn't something that should be tolerated by default just because someone doesn't know how it affects people/industry.
Put it this way. If a new show plays and only one person watches it, but they pirate it and everyone else watches the pirated copy, the following happens;
- the network can't sell ads, so they can't make more episodes, they also lose the investment they made in the initial episode(s).
- the hosting company that is hosting the pirated file makes money off advertising.
Explain how this is fair?
If it's available on Hulu or Netflix, get a VPN, pay for Hulu or Netflix, and at least you're ethically in the clear, even if you're technically going against the terms of service because of geography. At least the money is going to the people it should be going to.
Otherwise, don't try to justify behaviour under a cloud of ethics and legality when it's wrong on both counts.
Alternatively, accept that what you do is wrong (though hardly a blight on society) and come to terms with the fact that you're (like pretty much everyone in some manner) a flawed human being. :P We have club cards, lanyards and everything. :P
I'd also like to say that I've really enjoyed this discussion, and appreciate that the mods/admins haven't kicked this threads' ass yet. Many boards would have.
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I was speaking about ethics, not legality. Legal issues are clear cut black and white, either something is right (lawful) or wrong (unlawful). Ethics and morality are different issues with varying "shades of grey." I never said that downloading content was "right", but I said that I see it as a "different evil" from KOs. 
As I said, during Beast Wars, Beast Machines, Car Robot etc., I patiently waited for friends to tape the eps off TV and send it to me. I was able to avoid spoilers because modern social media outlets as we know them today didn't exist then. Even Hasbro themselves released a spoiler about the end of TF Prime Season 3 with news about an upcoming toy (with a spoilerish gimmick) that they posted on social media. 
(no offence to you, as I said, I'm extremely noob and ignorant about downloading 
).
