STL's Journey into BWs

[STL]

Maximal, No More.

I'm kind of loss here. Why does Dinobot go back to the Predacons? Is it some trick? There''s several scenes where he's quite committed (ie. having to think twice about killing Rattrap) and so on. Some good moments though but it was kind of confusing. The only rationale I have for it is Dinobot has a scheme in mind...

Other Visits Parts One and Two

Pretty mediocre first half. It was mostly setup but there were two key highlights.
1.) The Maximals deciding to go on the offensive. Just a badass moment.
2.) Megatron knowing he can't kil Tarantulas.
Apart from that though it did feel rather pedestrian. Oh and mighty lame-o is the Tigatron/Air Razor r/ship. They hold hands and that's pretty much it, they're an item. *pukes*

Part Two was heads and shoulders superior to the first part. So much happened I hardly believed it was an episode. Megatron gaining control of the ship, the Maximals taking Rhinox and Dinobot back and then getting back to launch an assault. Tarantulas working with the Maximals. I like him. He's creepy.

The other thing is that surfboard Primal has is neat. At first I felt it was corny and lame but it does open up new visuals in fight sequences and I think the animators are getting better at capturing that.

It was quite strange with this episode. I fell asleep watching the 2nd part here and had to rewatch it afterwards. I thought I dozed off b/c it was mundane. How wrong I was.

Bad Spark

Now this surprised me. I'd actually been reading a fan comic series (Shane Anderson's at TFW2005 which is highly recommended) and it spotlighted Blackarachnia and silverbolt as an item. I was like "huh? Stupid idea. Never would work. Some fan lost his marbles." Then I started watching this episode and realised it was actually part of BW continuity!!!

And did I like it? Hell yeah. Silverbolt was pretty meh to me initially. Those little medieval horns that sounded every so often he had a heroic thought was starting to make him really irksome. But played against Blackarachnia, he really works and is twice as interesting as a character. It's chivalry and boundless optimism vs. pragmatic and sneaky. It's an interesting relationship and in my mind the best fembot-malebot r/ship I've had the pleasure of following.

I do hope more gets developed here. I felt Blackarachnia's growth as a character skyrocketed here. She is definitely the most interesting fembot ever. It's interesting how she progressed from wanting to doublecross him to falling for him.

And i loved Megatron's response to the forming r/ship.

The romance issues aside, my fave Tarantulas getting slagged? Nope, that won't do. I look forward to him coming back...

The Predator X stasis pod was s definite improvement on the "oh another Transformer b/c of a stasis pod" gimmick. I liked the backstory and the acknowledgement of Starscream's sparks uniqueness. It does a lot to explain why he returned in G1. It's a moment that had me feeling giddish in a fanboy type of manner.

Rampage will be an interesting addition. I look forward to see where the character goes.

This was an excellent episode in my mind. One of the best.

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Now having said all that, I've come to the conclusion that Beast Wars is a terrible cartoon. No, I'm serious. I just think the writers wrote way above the intelligence of the intended audience. And that's a bad thing. Criticise Cybertron/Energon as I may, I at least understand where it's coming from.

Beast Wars in its 2nd season is proving to be inaccessible. The plots are dangling and require the child to remember key plot developments from episodes ago. The storytelling is dependent on previous stories.

Yes, I appreciate that this is what makes this series so thoroughly enjoyable to older fans but ultimately I can't help but feel it's sorely misdirected. This series was doom to failure in my opinion and I think Season 3 would have been cut due to this. Season 1 had more standalone plots but now everything is weaving into each other way too much.

As good as this is, it's not for the young ones. And I think that in that sense it is a failure. I can't see any kids (the intended audience) being that patient. You really need to be in the age bracket of 14 upwards to enjoy this.

[kup]

Maximal No More:

During the begining of the episode, Dinobot looks at the single remaining moon that should look very familiar and says "Megatron was right, he is close to a great Victory". The details of that great Victory will come in only a few episodes but given the revelation of where and when they are, should very much make it clear that Megatron has the means to succeed and believe me, those means will blow you away!

Edit for clarity: At the end of the episode he also confesses that "Megatron is close to a great Victory and I wanted a share in it". The details of that victory are still to be revealed but the whole series up to this point has been building towards this moment. If you recall from the first episode of Season 1, Dinobot deserted the Predacons because he thought that Megatron had brought them to the wrong planet, destroying the only reason that he was loyal to him. Now his reasons for joining the Maximals in the first place have proven to be wrong and Megatron now has the confirmation he needed to execute his original plan for success. Be ready for a HUGE revelation in coming episodes.

Other Visits Parts One and Two

I felt similarly to you. I enjoyed the episode but did not see it as too memorable overall although it is indeed an very good episode. However most of it doesn't make much of an impact(except for a couple of crucial scenes such as Tigatron and Air Razor's obduction) when compared to other episodes of Season 2.

Bad Spark

Personally I have always found the Silverbolt and Blackarachnia romance a bit on the ham side but that's just my preference. The Prototype X experiment was indeed an attempt to replicate Starscream's seemingly immortal Spark and the result was a psychotic being which is responsible of a great atrocity in a Maximal colony. However there is a lot more depth to Rampage that first seems, one of the coming episodes will show that as well as develop Silverbolt's character.

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I honestly don't think that Beast Wars is a terrible cartoon for children. I think its great how it probokes thought and does not attempt to patronize the audience by adding over execive simiplifications or too many kiddy elements. It keeps a good balance in my oppinion. This also succeeds at generally appealing to kids and adults alike.

I dont see anything inaccessible about Beast Wars 2nd Season. It is my favorite Season of that show and I think its fantastic. Most past plot points relevant to the episode that occured in previous episodes are often explained in dialogue and often enough one can follow the main current plot and what they are attempting to do even if you dont know the full details of it.

Yes, I appreciate that this is what makes this series so thoroughly enjoyable to older fans but ultimately I can't help but feel it's sorely misdirected. This series was doom to failure in my opinion and I think Season 3 would have been cut due to this. Season 1 had more standalone plots but now everything is weaving into each other way too much.

I believe the above statement to be incorrect. Beast Wars was a massive success that brought back Transformers after having faded into nothing. It continued strongly throughout the series and the only reason it was cut short was due to Hasbro's decision of wanting to take the franchise to a completly different direction (Beast Machines, technorganic). Larry DiTillio, Bob Forward and even Simon Furman had said that only upto the very end of Season 3 of Beast Wars they were expecting to be heading into a Season 4. Only Hasbro wanting to change direction in the last minute caused it to end (Damn you Archer! ) and then Transformers went into Beast Machines which actually has a much more complex plot than Beast Wars as it relies too much on philosophical and Spiritual aspects for its plot progression.

As good as this is, it's not for the young ones. And I think that in that sense it is a failure. I can't see any kids (the intended audience) being that patient. You really need to be in the age bracket of 14 upwards to enjoy this.

I think that a more intelligent show not appealing to kids is very subjective. When I was a kid, I personally adored series that offered continuity in the show by picking up plot points from previous episodes. I found it to be a huge respite from the 'single episode' story lines that were common then and have become common today. As a result I used to sherish the rare moments when an 80s cartoon would acknowledge some event that happened in the past. G1 Transformers episodes that did that are among my favorites.

Later in the 90s when I was 11, X-Men animated came out which followed a very similar story telling style that you see in Beast Wars with the writers seeding the show with plot points destined to come together in an epic story later. I loved that as it provided world building and continuity.

Later Beast Wars satisfied me with the form of story telling which I find great as you all know.

I personally never had issues with seeded plot points in a series or making references to past episodes, I love that even at a young age. When Star Trek: The Next Generation came out (I was 7 years old) I then became a Star Trek fan because it employed that form of story telling. Sure I did not always understand everything that happened but I still got a thrill how the writers were concerning themselves with building a virtual world through their stories than just one off episodes. At the dawn of the 21st century I stopped being a Trek fan because the franchise had fallen into mediocre crap but that is another story.

So its very subjective of how a more developed overall story would appeal to kids. Some may apreciate it while other would not. Also keep in mind that kids these days are not used to anything half resembleling an intelligent cartoon, specially those who only have free to air Australian television as their only source since all they broadcast are single template episode cartoons (every episode is the same as the last) such as Pokamon and others . So kids these days are not prepared or used to watching a highly developed show such as Beast Wars could be bit of a shock, something to get used to as you have to pay attention and follow the plot in order to understand it.

As kids we were groomed into more intelligent shows as from the 80s up to the late 90s, there was a clear progression in the development of complexity and depth within cartoon shows, sure 80s still suffered from simplified plots but you did see a clear attempt at trying to break from it with various degrees of success (eg G1 Season 3 tried to do some world and universe building). Unfortunately from 2001 and onwards, studios and franchises have made a clear attempt to dumb things down into single episode story runs or repetitive template episodes such as the Japanese children cartoon series (Pokamon) with highly simplified plots. Of course there are exceptions to this, 2003 Ninja Turtles is an excellent show and althoug He-Man 2002 almost fell into the simplified plot trap in Season 1, Season 2 was fantastic. Almost everything else has been very simplified comedy shows which are amusing in their own right but unfortunately dominate everythng such as Billy and Mandy, Attomic Betty and so forth. The flood of repetitive Japanese 'Battle game' cartoons also dont help.
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CHEAP GLASS BONGS

[GoktimusPrime]

I'm kind of loss here. Why does Dinobot go back to the Predacons? Is it some trick? There''s several scenes where he's quite committed (ie. having to think twice about killing Rattrap) and so on. Some good moments though but it was kind of confusing. The only rationale I have for it is Dinobot has a scheme in mind...

kup already pointed out the rationale behind why he did it - oh but wait, doesn't that throw Dinobot's loyalty into question?! Oh wait - isn't filial loyalty meant to be one of the pivotal morals of Bushido, meaning that his switching to and fro between allegiances in that episode has now questionably jeapardised his honour?! Oh wait, doesn't Bushido also insist on "death before dishonour"?! DUM-DUM-DUUUUUUUHHHMMM! How will Dinobot regain his honour?! ...... you'll just have to keep watching.

Oh and mighty lame-o is the Tigatron/Air Razor r/ship. They hold hands and that's pretty much it, they're an item. *pukes*

well that's meant to be part of the tragedy of their relationship... at the very moment they were ready to confess their love for each other, they are brutally separated from each other and abducted by aliens. And swearing to each other that no matter what happens, that they will somehow... somewhere... find each other again... the suggestion that their love will know now bounds - that is incredibly ROMANTIC!

That moment is summed up well by the song "I Will Find You" from "The Last of the Mohicans." (offtopic: this movie contains some of the best realistic martial arts/fighting moves I've ever seen in a movie that didn't have Toshiro Mifune in it)


"No, you submit, do you hear? You be strong, you survive... You stay alive, no matter what occurs! I will find you. No matter how long it takes, no matter how far, I will find you. I will find you!" - Hawkeye (The Last of the Mohicans)

"So dear I love him that with him,
All deaths I could endure.
Without him, live no life." - Juliet Capulet (Romeo and Juliet)

The story of Tigatron and Airazor's love is truly a tragic one. You'll find out more in Season 3. (why are you watching it so slowly? Just give yourself a day and have a freakin' marathon! )

The other thing is that surfboard Primal has is neat. At first I felt it was corny and lame but it does open up new visuals in fight sequences and I think the animators are getting better at capturing that.

The surfboard concept is inherently lame, but it's in the toy and they have to show it. And as you've seen, the animators do a good job of that by portraying it as Primal's Flight Mode. His robot mode's assault mode is actually not in the toy's instructions and actually shows that the animators must've sat down and played with the toy and came up with this mode themselves! Hasbro sent them samples of the toys for the animators to do 3D scans which they then render into CG models - hence why the show has such great toy-accuracy.

<--assault mode! (the toy can actually do this!)

Now this surprised me. I'd actually been reading a fan comic series (Shane Anderson's at TFW2005 which is highly recommended) and it spotlighted Blackarachnia and silverbolt as an item. I was like "huh? Stupid idea. Never would work. Some fan lost his marbles." Then I started watching this episode and realised it was actually part of BW continuity!!!

And did I like it? Hell yeah. Silverbolt was pretty meh to me initially. Those little medieval horns that sounded every so often he had a heroic thought was starting to make him really irksome. But played against Blackarachnia, he really works and is twice as interesting as a character. It's chivalry and boundless optimism vs. pragmatic and sneaky. It's an interesting relationship and in my mind the best fembot-malebot r/ship I've had the pleasure of following.

Yeah, they certainly are the odd-couple.

I do hope more gets developed here. I felt Blackarachnia's growth as a character skyrocketed here. She is definitely the most interesting fembot ever. It's interesting how she progressed from wanting to doublecross him to falling for him.

You are correct - it is from this point that both Silverbolt and especially Blackarachnia's characters develop at an increased rate.

Beast Wars in its 2nd season is proving to be inaccessible. The plots are dangling and require the child to remember key plot developments from episodes ago. The storytelling is dependent on previous stories.

Yes, I appreciate that this is what makes this series so thoroughly enjoyable to older fans but ultimately I can't help but feel it's sorely misdirected. This series was doom to failure in my opinion and I think Season 3 would have been cut due to this. Season 1 had more standalone plots but now everything is weaving into each other way too much.

As good as this is, it's not for the young ones. And I think that in that sense it is a failure. I can't see any kids (the intended audience) being that patient. You really need to be in the age bracket of 14 upwards to enjoy this.

As kup pointed out, history has already demonstrated that this show was a smashing success which heralded the Transformers Renaissance - something which would not have been popular if kids didn't like it (as they are the overwhelming majority target group for the toyline and show).

Don't worry - kids can remember plot elements from previous episodes. Kids aren't stupid. As a kid myself I grew up reading the G1 comics, which often relied on events in previous issues (moreso with the UK comics which often relied on what was seemingly small/insignificant moments in previous issues). And even as a kid I always noticed the glaring continuity inconsistencies in the cartoon... like the first time I watched episodes like "War Dawn" and "The Secret of Omega Supreme" - my friends and I did talk about the continuity errors in those eps.

Don't worry... kids remember this stuff. I was never into Digimon, but I've heard that Digimon had a continual story arc too. I've seen a little bit of Ben 10 and that also makes references to previous episodes (which I don't get because I'm not a regular viewer) - and a lot of my students are really into Ben 10 and can go on for an entire lunch hour talking about its continuity. And kids are adept at following the continuity of the Star Wars saga.

Kids aren't as dumb as you think... they can follow a continual story arc.

And that was the mistake that the G1 cartoon writers made with the post movie seasons... rather than increasing the complexity of the stories to engage a growing audience, they dumbed it down instead. Well, parts of it were made more mature - like giving Transformers a more serious science fiction theme (the EDC, making the Autobots and humans members of some galactic allance etc), but it was off set by some really stupid characterisations (especially Wheelie) and some really poorly written stories (e.g.: "Carnage in C-Minor").

...at the end of the day, history speaks for itself... Beast Wars breathed new life into the Transformers franchise, whereas the G1 cartoon died on its ass.

Now, when you watch Season 3, I should warn you now that the second half of that season will feel rushed - because it was. As you can see already, the writers are setting up complex plot elements - webs within webs - to springboard other stories etc etc. What happened in Season 3 is that after they'd written about half the series, Hasbro told the writers that Season 3 would be the final season and that they needed to wrap everything up. So plot elements that they'd seeded with the intial intent that the show would go on for at least another season (and thus be resolved over that period) were very quickly resolved in half a season... hence the rush.

It's similar to the last 5 issues of G1 where Simon Furman was told that Hasbro was cancelling the G1 run and he had to quickly tie up the story by US#80. Furman knew that he would eventually have to introduce Action Master Optimus Prime - hence why he killed off Powermaster Optimus Prime in US#75, but thought that he had a lot more time to introduce that toy... all of a sudden he was like, "you want me to introduce Optimus Prime? I just killed him off!"

...the same thing happened with Generation 2, although they did get a more advanced warning then and the story was wrapped up a lot better and wasn't really rushed... but Furman feeling the frustration of seeing another Transformer story being prematurely cancelled again expressed his feelings towards Hasbro through the character name "Jhiaxus" ("Gee, axe us!").

[i_amtrunks]

I think a strength of the Beast Wars series was that you could miss an episode or 2 in a row and still be in the loop, knowing what was going on, etc etc, but once you watched those missed episodes, watching the rest of the series from then on takes a slightly different take.

[STL]

Maximal No More:

I honestly don't think that Beast Wars is a terrible cartoon for children. I think its great how it probokes thought and does not attempt to patronize the audience by adding over execive simiplifications or too many kiddy elements.

I'm not saying it patronises, more along the lines of difficult to follow.

I believe the above statement to be incorrect. Beast Wars was a massive success that brought back Transformers after having faded into nothing. It continued strongly throughout the series and the only reason it was cut short was due to Hasbro's decision of wanting to take the franchise to a completly different direction (Beast Machines, technorganic). Larry DiTillio, Bob Forward and even Simon Furman had said that only upto the very end of Season 3 of Beast Wars they were expecting to be heading into a Season 4. Only Hasbro wanting to change direction in the last minute caused it to end (Damn you Archer! )

Ah, I didn't know the history behind the axing. I assumed like most shows it died away and then hence the radical change to Beast Machines to try something fresh.

I think that a more intelligent show not appealing to kids is very subjective. When I was a kid, I personally adored series that offered continuity in the show by picking up plot points from previous episodes.

X-Men animated came out which followed a very similar story telling style that you see in Beast Wars with the writers seeding the show with plot points destined to come together in an epic story later. I loved that as it provided world building and continuity.

Oh, I have to agree with you. The X-Men cartoon was what fuelled my love for comics and those type of stories. I don't think Beast Wars will surpass it as I don't have the same affection for the characters as I did the X-Men. I have to concede though it was to my later years (12-14) that X-Men got me as a fan for its type of multi-faceted storytelling. However, I always hid it b/c at that age, boys were moving in another direction and liking X-Men or Transformers was frowned upon and a slur against one's maturity.

To this day, I thoroughly enjoy well constructed stories. And that's one of the key reasons I'm coming to adore Beast Wars. The other thing that Beast Wars offers is characters that you can grow with. I think that's the other part of it's appeal unlike other lines. They're not momentary characters with generic archetypes that pass you by. You can watch them grow and change.

It's one of the reasons I liked comics for so long. There was a sense of growth and you watched the characters grow with you. Marvel's initial run of Thunderbolts did exactly that and to this day remains one of my most favourite series of anything ever.

Also keep in mind that kids these days are not used to anything half resembleling an intelligent cartoon. So kids these days are not prepared or used to watching a highly developed show such as Beast Wars could be bit of a shock, something to get used to as you have to pay attention and follow the plot in order to understand it.

I think that's the crux of my complaint. Kid''s, todays especially, aren't prepared for this time of show and I really think that you have to be smart and old enough (12-14 upwards) to appreciate the storytelling. It's a rarity that you'll find a kid with that patience. The endemic problem though is that the majority of 12-14 yr olds start drifting away from this medium because of the inherent social pressures that 12-14 year olds follow (IE. start chasing tail, being "cooler", being a jock)

I'm not saying I agree with the social dynamics here but that's just the way things are. So in my opinion, if 12-14 yr olds are your intended target, I think you're missing the earlier bracket and that Beast Wars isn't a series that has transcended time. It becomes something more of a product of it's time. I'm exposed to a lot of kids and I must say that BW wouldn't surivive these days and I guess that was the reason for me touching this topic to begin with. It's pretty sad that a good cartoon as this would not survive in today's youths eyes for the quality of its stories.

However, children as audience then were perhaps more intelligent than todays. That's a scary thought about what it says about the way were moving as a society. But alas, that's another issue altogether.

For me, Beast Wars is the arguably the best constructed TF fiction ever.

Oh and a clarification. In Bad Spark I believe it was mentioned in words to the effect that the Maximals are a subgroup of the Autobots? Is that right? That adds a lot of interest to me about how Cybertron really was in the Maximal days.

[STL]

well that's meant to be part of the tragedy of their relationship... at the very moment they were ready to confess their love for each other, they are brutally separated from each other and abducted by aliens. And swearing to each other that no matter what happens, that they will somehow... somewhere... find each other again... the suggestion that their love will know now bounds - that is incredibly ROMANTIC!

The thing for me was when did we first get a glimpse of them liking each other? I think early this season as a passing moment? And we hadn't seen them for, I don't know, 5 episodes. Suddenly they're professing a love that knows no bounds? Lame. I think for this to have worked better, we needed some emotional investment in the relationship. One episode would've been enough.

The notion is inherently romantic but it is also inherently lame unless you can get the audience to care about the r/ship.

The story of Tigatron and Airazor's love is truly a tragic one. You'll find out more in Season 3. (why are you watching it so slowly? Just give yourself a day and have a freakin' marathon! )

I'd love too but the problem is I get little time to myself. I'm looking after my little sister over these holidays and we do a lot during the day. In evening, I've got footy training or gym or a swim. And if it's not that, it's work. Oh and let's not forget the girlfriend before she gets upset about it again. It is pretty hard for me to get an entire day to myself. That's why I often stay up to 3-4am on a weeknight. Just generally it's the only time it's possible to get peace time for reading or watching.

It is a shame though. The lack of time has really destroyed any creative spark in me. There was a moment a few years back where I was going to throw away everything and focus on becoming an artist and do writing courses.

Kids aren't as dumb as you think... they can follow a continual story arc.

I do agree they're not as dumb as I think. But I think that today's kids are less patient in their demands and viewing styles. And that's just part of our culture.

The other thing I feel though, as mentioned, is that they only reach the age where they'll be patient enough to follow this series but by that age, they'll be already trying to distance themselves from cartoons.

Back in the mid 90s, I was in my early teens, and I know for a fact I had to actually hide the fact I was watching X-Men. Otherwise, I would've been in for one hell of a bagging. I believe kids today would feel the same.

I've actually never felt comfortable with my geekier tendencies and kept it rather private in my life till more recently. Some people are still freaked out when they learn about this side of me. For many, it doesn't quite compute.

[kup]

Oh and a clarification. In Bad Spark I believe it was mentioned in words to the effect that the Maximals are a subgroup of the Autobots? Is that right? That adds a lot of interest to me about how Cybertron really was in the Maximal days.

More of what is happening on Cybertron during the Maximal era will be revealed in soon to come episodes. The new IDW comics actually build on what is soon to be told about Cybertron. I find the bits they tell us about Cybertron so cool that is one of my biggest gripes that I have with Beast Machines, as they decided to abandon those awesome concepts. Thankfully the IDW comics adds and plays with those great concepts.
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SHEMALE THAI

[STL]

More of what is happening on Cybertron during the Maximal era will be revealed in soon to come episodes. The new IDW comics actually build on what is soon to be told about Cybertron. I find the bits they tell us about Cybertron so cool that is one of my biggest gripes that I have with Beast Machines, as they decided to abandon those awesome concepts. Thankfully the IDW comics adds and plays with those great concepts.

From everything I've heard, I'll be ignoring Beast Machines continuity.

I've actually not touched the BW comic from IDW yet. I've been very tempted but Paulbot was good enough to let me know that reading it first would make me lost as well as ruin my enjoyment of the cartoon.

[kup]

Paulbot is right. The comics assume that you have already seen all of Beast Wars and as a result, some of its plot is based on what happens in Seasons 2 and 3. Hell the first 2 pages of 'The Gathering' is a MASSIVE Beast Wars cartoon spoiler.

After you finish watching Season 3 I will also send you a PDF of the Beast Wars prequel comic (2006 botcon comic). It is technically a prequel to the first episode of Beast Wars but you get more enjoyment out of it after watching the whole series due to the little bits and pieces referencing on 'what is to come'.
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Pornstars soleil

[GoktimusPrime]

The thing for me was when did we first get a glimpse of them liking each other? I think early this season as a passing moment? And we hadn't seen them for, I don't know, 5 episodes. Suddenly they're professing a love that knows no bounds? Lame. I think for this to have worked better, we needed some emotional investment in the relationship. One episode would've been enough.

The notion is inherently romantic but it is also inherently lame unless you can get the audience to care about the r/ship.

The build up of their relationship was very subtle and until that moment, unspoken. Tigatron initially formed a relationship with Nightstalker (not necessarily romantic, but they were clearly close) - whom of course was killed leaving Tigatron with a gaping emotional wound. Airazor initially formed a bond with Cheetor, more like a sibling relationship, but afterwards we see moments where Tigatron and Airazor form a sort of mentor-apprentice relationship. There is suggestion that this flourished to something more affectionate in Season 2 - when they were set off to find other fallen stasis pods, you see Tigatron saying, "after you my lady" and there's a feeling of affection between the two characters as they go forth on their quest. Like I said, subtle.

Of course, a lot of time has elapsed while they've been on said quest and it's not unreasonable to assume that they've grown closer since, but neither have openly "made a move" until they found that valley with the beautiful (yet deadly) alien vegetation - it was the sight of that natural beauty that became a catalyst in accelerating their feelings toward each other, leading to the holding of hands and longingly gazing into each other's eyes - then POW! ALIEN ABDUCTION! Take that up ya' gob!!

...but never fear, as I said before, the final fate of these "star-cross'd lovers" will be revealed in Season 3 "he which if you with patient ears attend, What here shall miss, our toil shall strive to mend."

I do agree they're not as dumb as I think. But I think that today's kids are less patient in their demands and viewing styles. And that's just part of our culture.

The other thing I feel though, as mentioned, is that they only reach the age where they'll be patient enough to follow this series but by that age, they'll be already trying to distance themselves from cartoons.

The way to deal with impatience from kids is:
1/ Timing
2/ Engagement

What the story does is firstly engage the audience's interest, but then switch between scenes and/or change the pace of the story to keep things moving and interesting. Beast Wars doesn't spend too long dwelling on any one plot item and will switch between scenes and between simultaneously running plots and sub-plots to keep things moving and exciting - and they will also use a combination of moments of action and inaction. Believe it or not, but a wall-to-wall robot fight fest is actually pretty boring for a full half hour. Scramble City is proof of that!

Very impatient kids can demonstrate incredible patience if what they're doing engages their interest. Ever played Halo with autistic kids who have ADHD? They camp - they will camp for incredibly long times with extreme patience and SNIPE your ass! Aside from the unsporting (cheapness) factor of camping, I just don't have the patience to do that! I'd rather just run around and shoot people!

...I think that if you're any more impatient than that, then you need a good dose of Ritalin.

The other thing I feel though, as mentioned, is that they only reach the age where they'll be patient enough to follow this series but by that age, they'll be already trying to distance themselves from cartoons.

Back in the mid 90s, I was in my early teens, and I know for a fact I had to actually hide the fact I was watching X-Men. Otherwise, I would've been in for one hell of a bagging. I believe kids today would feel the same.

I've actually never felt comfortable with my geekier tendencies and kept it rather private in my life till more recently. Some people are still freaked out when they learn about this side of me. For many, it doesn't quite compute.

...as someone who's always been an open and proud TF fan, I just don't understand the whole "closet fan" mentality. Ever since I started liking Transformers I've had many people tell me that I was too old for toys, comics and cartoons and that I needed to grow out of it. As you can see, it's yet to happen.

If someone decides that they're too old or "cool" for cartoons, then there's nothing that cartoon writers can do to engage their interest.

My year 11-12 Computer Studies teacher thought that The Simpsons was a stupid kids' cartoon. All the students in my class tried to tell him that it wasn't, but he dismissed our claims thinking that we merely liked the show because we were still kids ourselves and that we would be destined to grow out of it. Yeah right. But if someone has that pre-conception about cartoons, there isn't anything that cartoon writers can directly do to engage their interest.