Headmaster cartoon

[GoktimusPrime]

Tetsuwan Convoy: so true.

What they did with Magnus' death was a very typical thing that is done in many fields when they want to make one guy look cool or powerful - make the opponent utterly incompetent. (-_-) And it sucks, because it doesn't take a genius to work out that the only reason why Sixshot is kicking butt is because Magnus isn't even really fighting back!

His death would be better to accept if he at least died fighting... which he really didn't. Optimus Prime died fighting... even Jazz died fighting in the live action movie. But Magnus? Not really.

And it doesn't just happen in cartoons, but also in movies and - one thing that really grinds my gears - real life martial arts/self defence demonstrations. Guh, I'll discuss this more in the relevant thread.

P.S.: Follow-up discussion here

[Tiby]

I must say I started to watch this in the English dub and could not handle it. I switched to the subtitled version and it is much better. The characters' personalities at least resemble their prior forms a bit better!

I am very confused about things (having only seen disc one so far) and worked out that I need to ignore Rebirth to deal with it. I am looking forward to more flashbacks to work it all out.

I have some questions about the show but will wait until I have seen more to ask, just in case they are answered!

[Soundwarp]

Yes Tiby Daniel and Wheelie are gay

[Adzma]

That's not to say that The Headmasters is a particularly fantastic series and free of flaws - it isn't (Ultra Magnus' death is the lamest Transformers death scene ever). It is by far the weakest of the Japanese G1 series, but I would disagree in saying that it was so hopeless that watching it in a dub form which strips it of its story would make it better. (-_-)

The death of Ultra Magnus in my eyes was the worst idea in the entire Headmasters cartoon. What made no sense was that Blaster got spanked hard by Soundwave, who also got pounded by Blaster, and they're all like "Hey no prob, we'll just rebuild them!" but Magnus is left to stew in a coffin. My other major quarrel with Headmasters is concerning how dark the show is; the Autobots (or Cybertrons if we talk cannon terms) rarely succeed in anything, and they're always being pushed back and/or losing soldiers while the Decepticons seem to get everything they desire. Still, it's a decent show and a much better ending than Rebirth. If only there could be a dub with the surviving G1 cast, that would rock.

[GoktimusPrime]

They wanted Sixshot to kill Ultra Magnus to show how powerful Sixshot was by killing off a significant character. It wouldn't be a great demonstration of his power if he killed Wheelie now would it?

As I mentioned before, the problem I have with Ultra Magnus' death wasn't the fact that he was killed by Sixshot but the way that he was killed - i.e.: by simply handing his butt over to Sixshot and allowing him to kick nine colours of snot out of him. Ultra Magnus gets shot by Sixshot, he gets up again, Sixshot transforms and shoots him again. Rinse and repeat.

Jazz's death was better in terms of having actually put up a fight - he was struggling against Megatron right up until he got snapped in twain (the main complaint people have about Jazz wasn't that he was killed but that he didn't get enough exposition before he died). Ditto Optimus Prime vs Megatron in TFTM - okay, Prime kicked the bucket afterwards, but he kicked some major Decepticon butt in the meantime, including beating the tar out of Megatron. And the fact that Megatron was using Hot Rod as a hostage gave him a valid excuse not to fight back while Megatron blasted him. What was Magnus' excuse? Sixshot had no hostage. Fight back, damnit!!

And it was entirely out of character for him too. Ultra Magnus was meant to be a veteran soldier. That kind of action would make more sense if the character was some extreme pacifist who detested violence in any form - like say, Mahatma Gandhi or Martin Luther King. But no Autobot is at that level of pacifism (not even Groove) - cos let's face it, if you did object that strongly against violence, you wouldn't enlist in the Autobot army. There are pacifistic Autobots who strongly dislike the use of violence, but they will use it when necessary. Come on... this is Ultra Magnus we're talking about here... the same Autobot who once said, "This is the most beautiful place I've ever seen. All right, give me the bomb." As if he wouldn't try to fight back!

What made no sense was that Blaster got spanked hard by Soundwave, who also got pounded by Blaster, and they're all like "Hey no prob, we'll just rebuild them!"

So, so true. (-_-) And the way they died was so lame... they killed each other with single punches. W T F ? (O_o) And the instant ressurection as Twincast and Soundblaster... yyeeaaaahh... it was such a poorly written excuse to get these two toys into the series. Although it was nice to see that the cassettes actually cared about Soundwave and Blaster.

But it makes you wonder why these guys don't spend the entire war just waltzing around using that super-punch to kill everyone that stands in their way! We never see them use those super-punches before or after! Why, it's almost as if it were a shameless (and incredibly lame) plot device!!!

I can imagine the discussion with the writers for that episode...

「次回サウンドブラスターとツインキャストと言うの新発売作品を紹介しなければならないので、サウンドウェ ーブとブロードキャストを早くに殺さなりません」 ("in the next episode we need to introduce the new Soundblaster and Twincast toys, so we need to quickly kill off Soundwave and Blaster")

「よーし、あの二人は拳で死ぬまで相手を打ち殺す！」 ("Okay, let's have them punch each other to death!")

「し・・・しかし銃が持ってるんではないんですか？？」 ("Bu-but don't they have guns??")

「いやいや、拳で打ってる方が簡単だ！」 ("No no, punching is much simpler!")

「・・・でも、それはちょっと怪しくないんですか？」 ("...but, don't you think that's kinda strange?")

「バカな事を言わなっ！これは子供の漫画だから誰も気にしねぇよ！」 ("Don't be stupid! Nobody's gonna care, this is just a kids' cartoon!")

「そっか・・・」 ("...right...")

[Gutsman Heavy]

The reason I watch the dub is because its so bad, I watched the first disk with subs and was so bored, all they say is "COMMANDER!!!" "HELP US COMMANDER!!!" "YES COMMANDER!!!"

Its the cultural difference, I just don't like the shows like that, its not just headmasters but all the Japanese TF shows that I've seen.

The dub is so bad its like a parody, that makes it watchable in my opinion. Kinda like Kung Pow.

[GoktimusPrime]

Yeah but the difference between the dubbing in Kung Pow and StarTV is that with Kung Pow we're laughing with it, not at it.

And yes, it is a cultural difference. In the Japanese dubs of G1 Seasons 1-3 and Transformers The Movie, Optimus Prime is referred to as "Commander." For example, in Transformers The Movie where Ironhide says, "But Prime!" in the Japanese dub he says, "But commander!"

It does make more sense considering that they are meant to be soldiers in an army. I'm quite sure that in the Australian army you would be expected to address your superior officers by rank rather than name (or at least attach the rank with their name)... you wouldn't refer to a General as "Bob" if you were on duty. It's a common practice in other scifis too where characters are part of a military/naval theme... e.g. Captain Kirk, Commander Cody, General Kenobi et al.

If it makes you feel better, just translate "Commander" as "Prime" - because even in Transformers "Prime" is more of a rank-title for Autobot leaders anyway (Optimus Prime, Sentinel Prime, Rodimus Prime, Nova Prime et al).

"I need gopher-chakus!"

[roller]

its funny in Headmasters that they spent ages going out into space following scorponok and then he flies back to earth unchallenged, where were the EDC on that one?

sixshot a ninja expert? lame


Head on!!!

[Gutsman Heavy]

Yeah but the difference between the dubbing in Kung Pow and StarTV is that with Kung Pow we're laughing with it, not at it.

I find unintentional bad dubs funnier than intentional bad dubs
JAPANESE: "Yes Commander!" boring
ENGLISH: "Yes Commandeeerr?" GOLD!

And yes, it is a cultural difference. In the Japanese dubs of G1 Seasons 1-3 and Transformers The Movie, Optimus Prime is referred to as "Commander." For example, in Transformers The Movie where Ironhide says, "But Prime!" in the Japanese dub he says, "But commander!"

If it makes you feel better, just translate "Commander" as "Prime" - because even in Transformers "Prime" is more of a rank-title for Autobot leaders anyway (Optimus Prime, Sentinel Prime, Rodimus Prime, Nova Prime et al).

Good idea but that doesn't fix that 90% of the dialogue is;
Fortress: We must save [blank]!/We must stop [blank]!
[RANDOM BOT]: Yes Commander!
5min battle scene!
times that by 3, add an into and epilogue and you have and episode of headmasters! granted g1 followed that formula but at least the characters interacted with each other more than;
Fortress:"[Order]"
[Random Bot]:"Yes Commander!"

I doubt anyone can change my mind :P
I'm glad some can enjoy it with out resorting to the English dub for cheap laughs!

[kup]

I personally don't mind Headmasters but I am aware that it is a poorly written series. It has its moments but there is a lot of cringe worthy stuff and the plot is rather lame. The killing of Ultra Magnus was unforgivably lame and the same goes for the Blaster vs Soundwave battle. "Uncle Sixshot" is also something that pissed me off.

However I still don't mind the series if a bit on the mediocre. Masterforce is infinitly better if you can get around the human centered cast but that's easy because unlike most other TF series, the Humans in Masterforce are useful and have a purpose!
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Bdsm shock