The Pros & Cons of Michael Bay - discussion topic

[BigTransformerTrev]

1.4 billion returns to McDonalds shareholders for FY14 isn't something to be scoffed at. But, hey, you don't enjoy the Bay films? then don't invest any more time and/or money into them -just don't sit there and tell me that an over glorified popcorn movie like The Avengers has



We must've watched two different versions then. What Avengers story? What smart characters? What development? We love taking pot shots at Bay for lack of character driven stories, but to throw The Avengers into the mix as a comparison? You've got to be kidding me, right? Tell me you're kidding. I've seen better stories on Dora The Explorer.



See, that's just an assumption. I don't "love" the Bay films and don't lose any sleep over them either. Labelling me as such would be akin to me calling you a pseudo intellectual overzealous Marvel Fanboy.



I'm sure they have and I'm glad that you've taken the time out to illustrate that to me. Ratings on a website have absolutely zero bearings on how i feel about a particular movie. 1% or 100% i couldn't care about it either way. 18% on a website or a billion dollars in takings? Which one do you think that the makers of AoE consider a more important measure of success.




And I'm glad that I am

Whoah Sinner! I've never seen you so vehement!

Cool!

[Starscream77]

This is my new favourite thread to read when I am bored.

Oh the hypocrisy featured here

But it does make me LOL.

[GoktimusPrime]

The money made by the films serves to demonstrate Michael Bay's core strength. He is an excellent "bums in seats" director. Getting people to watch his movies and make massive box office sales is his forte. Making movies that are actually good at telling stories and that people will want to watch over and over again without getting ever getting sick of it? Hhhmmm... Because IMHO, that's the hallmark of a good story; one that you never tire of.

"I'm so sick of The Empire Strikes Back," said no Star Wars fan ever.

[M-bot]

The money made by the films serves to demonstrate Michael Bay's core strength. He is an excellent "bums in seats" director. Getting people to watch his movies and make massive box office sales is his forte. Making movies that are actually good at telling stories and that people will want to watch over and over again without getting ever getting sick of it? Hhhmmm... Because IMHO, that's the hallmark of a good story; one that you never tire of.

"I'm so sick of The Empire Strikes Back," said no Star Wars fan ever.

...and that's the point right there. "Bums on seats" films don't have to be bad, and Gok's example is a stellar one. AOE was extraordinarily bad, but it just didn't have to be. There's no reason we can't expect a movie that kills at the box office AND has great story, characters, writing, etc. Put simply, Michael Bay is demonstrably not the guy to do it. 4 attempts so far with ever diminishing returns as far as quality (and I would argue increasing perversion, eloquently put by Film Critic Hulk from BadAssDigest.com). Let someone else have a go I say, even though my enjoyment of TFs is not remotely affected either way. I've already decided to vote with my wallet if Bay directs a 5th TF film (for all the good that will do).

[drifand]

I am in agreement if everyone I believe here wants tf movies to succeed and not fail. Whether Bay or another director, I like to see a better movie.

[Magnus]

The money made by the films serves to demonstrate Michael Bay's core strength. He is an excellent "bums in seats" director. Getting people to watch his movies and make massive box office sales is his forte. Making movies that are actually good at telling stories and that people will want to watch over and over again without getting ever getting sick of it? Hhhmmm... Because IMHO, that's the hallmark of a good story; one that you never tire of.

"I'm so sick of The Empire Strikes Back," said no Star Wars fan ever.

The fact that the movies have made so much money at the box office shows that people do want to see the movies over and over again. You don't get those kind of returns on people only watching your movie once.

...and that's the point right there. "Bums on seats" films don't have to be bad, and Gok's example is a stellar one. AOE was extraordinarily bad, but it just didn't have to be. There's no reason we can't expect a movie that kills at the box office AND has great story, characters, writing, etc. Put simply, Michael Bay is demonstrably not the guy to do it. 4 attempts so far with ever diminishing returns as far as quality (and I would argue increasing perversion, eloquently put by Film Critic Hulk from BadAssDigest.com). Let someone else have a go I say, even though my enjoyment of TFs is not remotely affected either way. I've already decided to vote with my wallet if Bay directs a 5th TF film (for all the good that will do).

Once again, I can't help but think that the problem a lot of people have here comes more from the writing than Michael Bay's direction. Story and characters, which seem to be recurring points, come from the writing, which Bay does not do, so I think it's unfair to blame him on these points. The writing is the foundation on which everything else is built on.

On the point of character, I recommend people watch Bay's other movies - as I have said before, no shortage of character 'moments' in The Island, The Rock, Armageddon or Pain and Gain.


On a somewhat related point, I don't really get the story-related complaints. I can follow easily enough what's going on, what characters are doing and why (most of the time, anyway). Simplistic? Perhaps.

[drifand]

Bay still plays a part on what is approved on written. and since you said "a lot of people" on this thread it does shows there is not just a small amount of unsatisfied fans.

Besides the fan based, there are many viewers who are just shocked at the whole story plot.

There are bound to be people who love it 10/10, there is no denying that, I am just not seeing that many.

When was the last time we saw a toy masterpiece for the movie?

[BigTransformerTrev]

This is my new favourite thread to read when I am bored.

Oh the hypocrisy featured here

But it does make me LOL.

Same - i'm not going to get drawn back into the heated debate as I've realised long ago that I am not going to be able to change anyones perceptions. As someone who really liked the movies for the most part but still got irirated with some of the flaws I'm too much of a fence sitter anyway

It does amuse me however, that so many folk that have hated a few 2-hour-something movies have probably spent probably 10 times longer talking about why they hated them than actually watching the movies themselves Then there are others who bag out the movies who haven't even watched them which I find rather odd, best to experience and make up ones own mind rather than rely on the opinions of others I feel.


It's a bit like with Athiesm. A passionate athiest still thinks about gods all the time, albiet in terms of denying their existence. Then you have other forms of athiest who have just dismissed the idea of gods altogether so much that the topic never even enters their mind. There are some who hate the movies so much they have turned it into a consuming passion - often talking about them far more than people that loved the flicks! Then there are others who didn't like the movies so much they have put them from mind and wouldn't even consider bothering to chat about them.


And no - I am definetly not putting Michael Bay in a 'god catagory'

[drifand]

It also amuses me that people do not see why so many are not at all happy the way tf movies has gone. In honesty it has lost the plot and other than Optimus prime all the rest of the transformers are a bunch of expendable assets. Along with a bubble bee who have no voice and lost loyalty to be guardian to wickwicky.


It is a popcorn movie, I give you that. But that's all. The franchise is already that bad I doubt it can be any better anymore without a proper reboot by someone else.

I am watching the Last ship produced by bay, it's way better than tf movies.
So there you go.

[BigTransformerTrev]

It also amuses me that people do not see why so many are not at all happy the way tf movies has gone. In honesty it has lost the plot and other than Optimus prime all the rest of the transformers are a bunch of expendable assets. Along with a bubble bee who have no voice and lost loyalty to be guardian to wickwicky.


It is a popcorn movie, I give you that. But that's all. The franchise is already that bad I doubt it can be any better anymore without a proper reboot by someone else.

I am watching the Last ship produced by bay, it's way better than tf movies.
So there you go.

Um.... You do realise you kinda just proved my point rather than providing a coherent rebuttal right? You did this last time too. You are so consumed with your hatred of the flick you don't seen to realise I'm just providing a bit of off-hand analysis of the debate itself rather than trying to promote or defend the movies. Yelling back at me about how the movies suck completely misses the points I'm discussing and in actual fact kinda reinforces them.

Tell ya what, find someone who, like my points about personal attacks, more gets what I'm trying to say and then come back