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Thread: SPOILER THREAD: SW: The Force Awakens

  1. #121
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    Gguuuuhhh... there are some really banal fan discussions out there. I recently had a discussion with some guys (not on this board) who are complaining that only Rey was shown to be a Jedi, and not also Finn. And their justification is based purely on, "Cos that's what we want!" rather than citing canonical evidence.

    Here are the points I raised about why Finn is not a Jedi (based on what we've seen so far -- future movies may change this as new evidence comes to light):
    • Not everyone who can wield a lightsabre is Force sensitive enough to become a Jedi/Sith. Han Solo used Anakin's lightsabre to cut open Luke's Tauntaun on Hoth. But if he had enough midichlorians^Force potential to be a Jedi, then surely Obi-Wan would have sensed this and trained him too. Also, the description of the Force would pretty much explain a lot of things about himself (just as it did for Anakin), but we know that Han was initially very skeptical about the Force. Every living thing has midichlorians in them^a degree of Force susceptibility, but there are very rare individuals who have a high enough midichlorian count^level of Force sensitivity that they can be trained in the Jedi/Sith arts. Finn clearly has an above average level of sensitivity that allows him to hold a lightsabre and even use it at a very rudimentary level without lopping his own arm off... but so did Han, and he's no Jedi.

    • Although Finn was able to wield a lightsabre, he pretty much sucked at it. He was beaten in a fight with a Stormtrooper wielding a vibro-weapon (he was only saved when the Stormie was shot by a Resistance X-Wing), and then he was later savagely beaten by Kylo Ren. There is no doubting Finn's incredibly courage and gallantry, but he really wasn't very good with the lightsabre. Imagine a person who has an above level natural ability to play cricket, and they could probably beat the average person in the population... but they're no where good enough to play at the professional level. Whereas Rey is the kind of person who has the natural talent to play in the big league, even without formal training. She's like the Sir Don Bradman of the Jedi.


    Quote Originally Posted by UltimateGalvatron View Post
    Top 3 Characters Fans Love That Do Nothing
    Captain Phasma
    Boba Fett
    Darth Maul (he killed one guy and the fans brought him back in the Clone Wars )
    I would disagree about Maul, because his very exposure to the Jedi allowed them to finally know that the Sith were real (and not just mythical Boogey Men as they'd previously believed). And he didn't just kill one "guy," he single-handedly killed a Jedi! And he very nearly killed Obi-Wan too. Do you know how hard it is to kill a Force User? Try playing the Star Wars RPG or Miniatures game using a fairly average character (e.g. Imperial Stormtrooper) against a unique Jedi or Sith character and see if you can kill that Force User on your own. Good luck.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by UltimateGalvatron View Post
    Top 3 Characters Fans Love That Do Nothing
    Captain Phasma
    Boba Fett
    Darth Maul (he killed one guy and the fans brought him back in the Clone Wars )
    Meet the next generations cult hero

    Quote Originally Posted by Megatran View Post
    It felt a lot shorter. Did she actually do anything?

    Yet the toys & merchandise are being pumped out in her honour.
    She did what any good Captain would do when confronted by the enemy!
    Acquiesce to their demands without putting up any form of a struggle instead of taking one in the arm for the home team


    Quote Originally Posted by Autocon View Post
    The one in silver sparkly outfit?
    On the plus side, she did look good on screen. That's gotta count for something? Right?


    & on to my random musings...

    Stormtroopers can hit people and objects
    Father Merrin got cut down. Pangs of sadness.
    BB-8 is a machine. Literally and figuratively. Possibly my favourite new character.
    2 people enter the theatre, sit adjacent to us and start talking. Loudly. I'm tempted to take my sundae spoon and see if I can perform an emergency lobotomy. They stop talking. I return to my sundae and the movie.
    Ooohhh... Shiny Stormtrooper.
    Where's Luke?
    Kylo Ren has a tanty which we find quite amusing.
    Han Solo!
    Chewbacca! Raaaarrrrraaaggggahahhaaaghhhaah!
    Millenium Falcon! Lots of it too.
    Still waiting for Luke...
    Who are these pirates?
    Oh, there's Leia and Han. Awwwww....
    Poe's safe and sound. He reminds me of Han's and Arthur Fonzarelli's love child.
    Voldemort is a Sith Lord?
    Smug First Order Officer. I like the guy.
    They stuck a huge version of the Death Star laser inside Hoth. I can work with that.
    Look! There's a weak spot. 0 Bothans does to bring us this information.
    Kylo discovers that Rey, despite being aware of the force for only 3 minutes is already stronger than he is.
    Han dies. 2nd bout of sadness pangs... At least Harrison got what he wanted, even if it was 32 years later.
    Asssemble strike force!
    Cool flying battle scenes.
    Fin and Kylo lightsaber duel. Really should be one sided, but Kylo's still obviously a real noob at these things.
    Rey joins the lightsaber party while Fin takes a nap. Proves again that she absolutely owns her cousin Kylo with a game of Force Tug O' War.
    Good guys win, bad guys retreat.
    Finally! Luke! Wait... that's it? "hey, Mark, just stand there... yep, that's it... don't move... take your hood off.... beautiful, baby! Cut!"

    I might sneak in another viewing on a Tightarse Tuesday



  3. #123
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    Also, as well as Han and Finn, General Grevious can use Lightsabres (quite well, and 4 at once!) without being a Jedi/Sith.

    Also, I wasn't really being serious about Maul, I know its very hard to kill Force users, and that fight scene was really cool.
    "Save the rebellion! Save the dream!" - Saw Gerrera


  4. #124
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    I have bought TWO figures of Counstable Zuvio, and an ebook, and I must have missed him in a bathroom break. How was he? As cool as the toy?
    On the lookout for MISB Headmaster Highbrow, Takara or Hasbro. I'm sure I could make you a sweet deal!

  5. #125
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    A couple of thoughts from me
    Script was quite predictable, my wife and I guessed the basic premise just on the trailers (and I was actively avoiding watching the trailers).
    I wasn't a fan of the "bigger badder deathstar" new idea please.
    Han had to die. Harrison ford is a million years old and could die in real life tomorrow so they needed him to be gone.
    Storm troopers still can't hit @#%$ and their "armour" must still be made of toilet paper, have they learned nothing?
    What was the deal with Phasma? Bling Storm trooper that did nothing. Also, she would not have lowered the shields, she would have taken the bullet considering she was indoctrinated since childhood to serve the First Order
    I liked that Kylo Ren had tantrums and wasn't a master, he clearly hadn't finished his training
    Chewbacca would not have just walked past Leia after Han dies.
    Chewbacca should have had a massive rage attack and clobbered a heap of Storm Troopers
    Han would have known by now how powerful Chewys bowcaster was.

    Despite my (minor) grievances I was pretty happy with the movie. They cannot please everyone all the time. It is much better than the prequels and I am looking forward to the next one.
    Spiderken Away!

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by reillyd View Post
    I have bought TWO figures of Counstable Zuvio, and an ebook, and I must have missed him in a bathroom break. How was he? As cool as the toy?
    Don't think he was even in it. Neither was Sarco Plank. I'm taking those 3.75inch Action Figures back to BigW!

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by UltimateGalvatron View Post
    Also, as well as Han and Finn, General Grevious can use Lightsabres (quite well, and 4 at once!) without being a Jedi/Sith.
    That's different. Grievous is a highly augmented cyborg, granting him a mechanical advantage over his Jedi opponents. He was also trained by Count Dooku (according to the still in-canon Clone Wars series). But even then, Grievous' fighting style is, comparatively, grossly inefficient compared to a Jedi's. Grievous' style is very flashy and showy, but not nearly as effective as Obi-Wan's use of the Mynock Style. Even though Grievous was attacking Kenobi at 20 strikes per second, he still could not penetrate Obi-Wan's excellent use of the 3rd Form. Kenobi was able quite literally start disarming Grievous, forcing him to beat a hasty retreat on his Wheelbike. And while the final fight between Grievous and Kenobi was a close one, with Kenobi being forced to use a blaster to kill the General, the General's main advantage over Kenobi was a technological/mechanical one rather than through superiority of skill.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    That's different. Grievous is a highly augmented cyborg, granting him a mechanical advantage over his Jedi opponents. He was also trained by Count Dooku (according to the still in-canon Clone Wars series). But even then, Grievous' fighting style is, comparatively, grossly inefficient compared to a Jedi's. Grievous' style is very flashy and showy, but not nearly as effective as Obi-Wan's use of the Mynock Style. Even though Grievous was attacking Kenobi at 20 strikes per second, he still could not penetrate Obi-Wan's excellent use of the 3rd Form. Kenobi was able quite literally start disarming Grievous, forcing him to beat a hasty retreat on his Wheelbike. And while the final fight between Grievous and Kenobi was a close one, with Kenobi being forced to use a blaster to kill the General, the General's main advantage over Kenobi was a technological/mechanical one rather than through superiority of skill.
    "I think even if it doesn't make sense or isn't effective if we dump a couple a thousand into CGI we could sell a lot of toys to kids and collectors. Plus EXPLOSIONS and VIOLENCE!" - George Lucas
    "I think we could be friends..." - Micheal Bay

    I still like the character of Grevious, and he sure looks badass even if he doesn't fight as well as a Jedi. I still think that against someone like Han or Finn in a non-Force user fight General Grevious would easily win, but he has had training while the others haven't.
    "Save the rebellion! Save the dream!" - Saw Gerrera


  9. #129
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    Just got back from second viewing. This time with my 7 year who told me "Dad I didn't like it.........I loved it!" (Almost broke dads heart)

    Musings from a 7 year old

    'So funny when BB-8 shocked Finn on the bum, twice!'
    'Kylo Ren tricked Han into thinking he was good then killed him, that was a bit sad'
    'Chewie was a good shot when he shot kylo ren'
    'There on a search for Luke skywalker, it's important that they find Luke skywalker....'

    Noticed at the end Luke is standing next to a grave? Monument? Didn't notice first time. Hmmmmmmm.......
    Sometimes all you need is a little energon and alotta luck...

  10. #130
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    Oh and in Rey's flashback/flash-forward you hear both yoda and obiwan...
    Sometimes all you need is a little energon and alotta luck...

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