SPOILER THREAD: SW: The Force Awakens

[GoktimusPrime]

I assumed his body is now being buried with a broken neck as you Force choked him to death? Or he was impaled on your lightsaber?

Alas it was at the EB Games Expo where I was manning Hasbro's booth (not to mention that my daughter was there), so I had to be on my best behaviour. I did tell him that I didn't want to hear spoilers, and that dropping spoilers without warning wasn't cool. But of course, the "damage" was already done.

True! But I was more counting human/main characters.

But that's the point. Star Wars deliberately features those two droids as the only characters to appear in all the films. One of the main influences for Star Wars was Kurosawa Akira, a Japanese director famous for making samurai films. The Hidden Fortress inspired the story for A New Hope (the Death Stars and Starkiller Base are all hidden fortresses). Something that Kurosawa sometimes did was to tell the story not from the POV from a higher class nobility like a samurai etc., but from a lower class commoner such as a court jester, farmers, peasants etc. The lowest station that someone can have in the Star Wars universe is to be a droid, because they are basically a slave class. Episode VII tells much of the story through the eyes of the new droid, Beebee-Eight, but of course we do also see See Threepio and Artoo Detoo.

So yeah, the consistency of the droids is very much intentional, as a story-telling motif that inspired by Kurosawa. The story in the Clone Wars episode Bounty Hunters was a retelling of Kurosawa's Seven Samurai, and the episode was made in his memory (as stated in the ending credits). Also, George Lucas initially wanted Mifune Toshiro to play Obi-Wan Kenobi, but Mifune declined, thus the role was given to Sir Alec Guinness. Other references to Kurosawa's samurai epics in Star Wars includes:
* The Force = a type of energy that flows through living things, inspired by the Japanese martial arts concept of "Ki(ai)" (though obviously greatly fantasised)
* Force Users are essentially space samurai. Just as romanticised image of the samurai is one of favouring swords over guns, Jedi and Sith prefer using light sabres over blasters, which both sides consider to be clumsy and uncivilised weapons.
* Some costumes are based on the Japanese Gi, notable Luke's farmboy clothes, Owen Lars' costume, as well as the standard apparel of the Jedi and Sith.

* Lexicon. The word "Jedi" is derived from the Japanese word Jidai (時代), which means 'period,' such as a historical period or period drama. Samurai stories are called "Jidai-geki" (時代劇), which means "period play." The word "Obi" (帯) is the Japanese word for 'belt, and "ken" (剣) means 'sword'. "Wan" (腕) can mean 'arm' (Tetsuwan Convoy = "Iron Arm Prime" ). The word "Sith," when rendered in Japanese phonology, sounds like the word for death (死す), thus a "Sith Lord," can be seen as a "death lord." On the Death Star.
* The use of screen wipes, a signature technique from Kurosawa.

Star Wars does have a multitude of other influences as well, including Westerns and other science fiction. I'm not saying that Kurosawa's samurai epics were Lucas' sole inspiration for Star Wars, but they were among them, and to the point, this is why the droids are a recurring motif in the movies.

[Bumblebee2000]

As it has been a few days I'm a bit iffy on how ANH the ending was, I suppose you could say it about the whole film, but it is the stuff at the end with the Starkiller Base that bug me.
But despite that, it was a GOOD Star Wars film which has given me a feeling I haven't felt in a while.
I enjoy other films, but Toy Story 3 was the last thing to of left this mark on me. Being into both franchises since I was 4 helps, but the only problem detrimental enough to affect a lifetime of nostalgia is that Luke, Leia, Han and Chewie (bonus points for C3PO and R2) will never be in a film together in the new trilogy. I do sort of wish they'd either this be the 8th, or have them on the screen once before the end. I can put up with Han being dead since I know it is what Ford wanted, but I wanted him to die in a film where he had actually been with the gang before the end.
Also I don't want a third Lego Falcon and they aren't likely to stick him in many (any?) other sets.

[GoktimusPrime]

Overall, I do think that this was a good film, on par with A New Hope which did have a fairly basic and straightforward narrative. It may not be excellent, but I don't think it's bad either. I would rate it as good. The characters in this film seem more fleshed out than in the Prequels. Also bear in mind that, unlike the Prequels and more like the Original Trilogy, there isn't going to be just one person directing all the movies. Because here's what it looks like so far...
Prequel Trilogy
Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace, directed by George Lucas
Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, directed by George Lucas
Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, directed by George Lucas
Original Trilogy
Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, directed by George Lucas
Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, directed by Irvin Kershner
Star Wars Episode VI: The Return of the Jedi, directed by Richard Marquand
Sequel Trilogy
Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens, directed by Jeffrey Abrams
Star Wars Episode VIII, directed by Rian Johnson
Star Wars Episode IX, directed by Colin Trevorrow
The Prequel Trilogy was the only one that suffered from a "directorial dictatorship" (just as Transformers does ). So regardless of what you thought of this film, Abrams won't be directing any more.

I really quite like the character of Finn, as it gives us a special glimpse into the life of an Imperial Stormtrooper, something which none of the films had ever done before. Some people have criticised Finn for being okay with killing for the Resistance when he refused to kill for the First Order, but I think that they're entirely different contexts. The First Order wanted him to execute captured civilians. It was an act of cold blooded murder. Fighting against the First Order, Finn was killing armed enemy combatants in battle. Combatants who were either attacking him, his allies or civilians. It wasn't done with the malice intent that comes with executing helpless captives.

I also really liked how it shone a light on what it meant to be a Stormtrooper. Abducted and brainwashed since infancy, and re-brainwashed if there's any sign of non-compliance. They are only given call signs, no actual names. It's reminiscent to how the Clone Army started (in the EU it was actually Anakin Skywalker who decided that the Clones deserved to have individual names like Cody, Rex, Oddball, Gree, Bly etc.), and also consistent with what we saw in the Original Trilogy (e.g. "TK-421, why aren't you at your post?"). Through Finn, the Imperial Stormtroopers have become humanised for the audience. Although the other Stormies remain loyal to the First Order, we do at least understand why; they have been mentally enslaved and have virtually no choice but the serve. It also makes them more realistic, because it's also reminiscent of how many terrorist armies mentally enslave their combatants from a young age (e.g. ISIL/Daesh, the Lord's Resistance Army etc.). The idea of using children as combatants has happened frequently throughout history, typically as low ranking and expendable foot soldiers (while adults hold higher ranks), and the Stormtroopers are very much the expendable pawns of the Empire and First Order. This is why foot soldiers are also called infantry. We know that Palpatine had been influencing Anakin since he was a boy, and who knows how long Leader Snoke has been in Ben Solo's life for.

As for Kylo Ren's fits of rage, I think that this is typical of a Sith. Kylo destroys property when he gets angry, Vader killed his own men! Obviously killing people is worse than destroying property, but this could be due to Ren still being far more conflicted than Vader. Snoke may have thought that partaking in the murder of innocents might have turned Ren further to the Dark Side, since it apparently worked with Anakin Skywalker. But it didn't; Ren was still conflicted and could still feel the Light Side calling to him. So Ren had to take it up a notch and deliberately kill his own father in cold blood to bring about his final conversion to the Dark Side. This harks back to when Palpatine told Vader that he had killed Padmé in his rage; true or not, Vader believed it and it strengthened his conviction to the Dark Side. But Leia believes that there still is good in Ren, just as Luke believed that Vader hadn't fully fallen the Dark Side too. And he was right. I hope that Leia's intuition proves true too and Ren becomes Ben again, returning to the Light Side. I just hope that Ben doesn't have to die in the process as Anakin did, cos... that's already done.

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Here is a Skywalker Family Tree that I've made, only referencing characters who appeared in the films. So I'm ignoring Expanded Universe or deleted scenes from the films, just what was in the final cut of the movies.

[Megatran]

Snooki is a Sith Lord.

[i_amtrunks]

Must say that I thoroughly enjoyed it. So much fan service and rehashing of plot and character elements, but better than all the reboots and remakes going around in other franchises.

I knew Han was going to bite the dust as soon as Kylo Ben said his name. I'm glad Chewie didn't kick the bucket as well. The whole scene on the bridge, I was just waiting for him to turn his lightsabre on and I was not disappointed.

I was impressed by the practical and CG effects, it felt like a Star Wars film because of them. BBdroid is a masterpiece, the way he checked those stairs under the smugglers den cracked me up. So much personality from a simple shape. Much more fun than R2D2 who is an arrogant garbage can!

So many questions left unanswered and I am sure that the books, comics, series and shows will help fill in the gap between 6 and 7. So much only briefly mentioned about Luke and the new Jedi order, Snoke and more.
Is Snoke a Sith, or just a wielder of the dark side of the force? He was never referred to as Darth, neither was Kylo Ben. The rule of 2 makes it unlikely that he is a true Sith.
Seeing Kylo Ben back as a cyborg next episode should be good, more Vadar like, which is what he wants. If he throws Gollum.. I mean Snoke into a pit at the end of episode 9 to save Rey or a Skywalker then I'll be a little dismayed.

I also wonder why Leia never trained since. She was meant to carry on the he Jedi way if Luke lost to Vadar in RotJ. Surely if she has half e natural skill and ability of Luke she should have some training.

As for the actors I cannot praise Daisy Ridley enough. She was perfect. The true hero of The film and the strongest female action hero is donkey's years. Can't wait to see all the girls in her costume instead of frozen (whose female characters were also strong). She really sold me into the movie (along with John Boyega's Finn). They were both fantastic to watch and had a true chemistry not seen in any of the previous six films. On the flip side, I kind of wish they had kept Solo Alice and killed off Leia, only because Carrie Fisher still cannot act and seemed bored and unsure of what she was doing whenever she was on screen. The less we see of her in the next two films the better.

So no dead bad guys (Phasma better be alive, she was as useful as Boba Fett!) and some training for Rey should make a more lightsabre-y episode 8.

Let's hope the series, comics, books and shows in the interim don't ruin or devalue any of the events and characters from this highly enjoyable blockbuster by forcing family ties or midichlorians or any other Lucas style retcons...

[Golden Phoenix]

Is Snoke a Sith, or just a wielder of the dark side of the force? He was never referred to as Darth, neither was Kylo Ben. The rule of 2 makes it unlikely that he is a true Sith.

Snoke could have been a secret apprentice, trained by Vader or Palpatine to removed the other.

Palpatine had seen Vader as a failure, disappointed that he had been reduced to a cyborg on life-support. He had such potential, and now Vader was limited by his . He was plotting to replace him as soon as he found out about Luke. Before he found out about Luke it would seem logical he had an eye out for someone else. Snoke could have been who he was training up.

That being said, Palpatine also had other force wielding operatives (like the Inquisitors seen in Rebels). Snoke could have been one of them that just made a grab for power in the power vacuum that would have followed Palpatine's death. He may have just declared himself Sith.

[Jetfire in the sky]

My favourite parts were Kylo Ren's tantrums. Fantastic show of anger and frustration.

+1 on this
It very much reminded me of The Lego Movie's Bad cop throwing chairs around in a most hilarious way.

The Stormtroopers walking around the corner deciding to not venture towards him was lovely comedy.

[CBratron]

Definitely a.swift dose of nostalgia. Felt a lot like a lot of old elements deconstructed and reconstructed in a different configuration.

And I just wanted him to say that word: magnitude. You know who I mean.

[GoktimusPrime]

So many questions left unanswered

This article explains how this is one of the strengths of Force Awakens: What The Force Awakens Gets Right That the Prequels Got Wrong.

One key point that I agree with is the shift back towards a character-driven story.
"In Red Letter Media’s instant-classic, feature-length takedown of The Phantom Menace, three people are given a seemingly easy task: describe a character from the films without mentioning what they look like, what kind of costume they wear, or their profession. All three easily navigate Han Solo: He’s a rogue, a smoothtalker, a criminal with a good heart.

But what about Qui-Gon Jin? Not so easy.

Putting the Force Awakens characters through the same test yields much better results. Rey is lonely, smart, and tough. She’s afraid of further abandonment. Finn is a man without an identity, and he’s scared but with a strong moral compass. Kylo Ren is lost, conflicted, angry. Hell, I can tell you that BB-8 is loyal. These are characters who yearn. They’re driven. They want things. Those seem like such simple concepts, but when a character doesn’t have a clear motivation, you’ll never get the cheer-in-your-seat moments we see in The Force Awakens, like that lightsaber moment."

[Lord_Zed]

As for the actors I cannot praise Daisy Ridley enough. She was perfect. The true hero of The film and the strongest female action hero is donkey's years. Can't wait to see all the girls in her costume instead of frozen (whose female characters were also strong). She really sold me into the movie (along with John Boyega's Finn). They were both fantastic to watch and had a true chemistry not seen in any of the previous six films.

I agree absolutely that Daisy Ridley was the heart of the film, and I love the way she went a step father than Leia and rescued herself pretty much. I wouldn't quite go as far as to say the strongest in years, cause we also got an equally strong Furiosa this year who stole Mad Max's film from under him so that's two really strong female action heroes in one year, add to that if you will tv's Jessica Jones (in the super hero genre) and 2015 has 3 strong new female characters debuting in traditionally male dominated genre's that's more than we've seen in a long time alright.

JJ, you have redeemed yourself for the somewhat questionable portrayal of women in Star Trek into Darkness.

Star wars is saved!!!!!

Now someone make me a good Star Trek film that actually feels like Star Trek.