Prime Wars: Part 3 Speculation

[BigTransformerTrev]

So yeah, I think the third installment will go along the same lines. It wont be Beast Wars and I highly doubt it will be Pretenders or Action Masters either. Certainly not Minicons as RID(15) has that covered. I don't reckon Targetmaster either. It could possibly be Micromasters, since you can swap around the front and backs of vehicles to make new ones and they can interact with bases which can hook up. There is a lot of variety and interactivity between toys to be had. But for some reason I don't see it happening. We may see something brand new, or a variation on an old gimick we had not thought of (like the Headmasters riding in guns and having their own little vehicles). Guess we will just have to see

Nope, they didn't make it into the Prime Wars Trilogy, they ended up in the first outing of the War For Cybertron Trilogy .

I wonder what we have left from G1 for them to trot out now? We've had Combiners, Pretenders & Micromasters. We've had Headmasters (Titan Masters) and are getting Targetmasters (Weaponizers). You could argue that the little POTP Prime figures were sorta like Powermasters as in they turned into a cube that powered up thier host but its a bit of a stretch.

Are we getting to the point where it's only Action Masters left, and would Hasbro be foolish enough to try? Otherwise the only thing I can think of would be Breastmasters from the JP G1 continutity.

[Tranceblade]

Are we getting to the point where it's only Action Masters left, and would Hasbro be foolish enough to try? Otherwise the only thing I can think of would be Breastmasters from the JP G1 continutity.

Brainmasters? Evolution Leader Star Saber, Voyager Victory Leo, Deluxe Road Ceasar combining bots... I can only dream.

[GoktimusPrime]

I wouldn't mind if they did CHUG Action Masters, but WITH alt modes! I'd loooove to see an Action Master Treadshot! Although... yeah, legal reasons would prevent him from being a revolver pistol. But still! And we have had the likes of Krok, although he was a retool of Skullsmasher and didn't transform into a spaceship. And whatever the hell Banzaitron's meant to transform into!

[KELPIE]

Less so gimmicks and more characters, we still need to see the Autobot Targetmasters and Powermasters, Slapdash, Doubledealer, Joyride.

The triggerbots/cons sparkabots, remaining firecons, Seacons among others.

That said, I'm one of those people that feel there doesn't need to be a line wide gimmick, so I understand I could be in the minority here.

As for actionmasters, I'd love some more of the actionmaster only characters to get figures. I'd take them as actionmasters or as retools/repaints. Mainframe, Rad, Kick-off, Jackpot, Skyfall, Sprocket, Treadshot, Krok, Banzaitron, Axer and Gutcruncher... yes please!

You know, speaking of actionmasters, I'm surprised Super7 haven't released a series of actionmasters with their Reaction line?

[GoktimusPrime]

That said, I'm one of those people that feel there doesn't need to be a line wide gimmick, so I understand I could be in the minority here.

I agree. Although I don't mind it when the gimmick canonically makes sense. Most Combiner Wars Transformers combined, but most of the combinable CW TFs are based on characters who were gestalt members in G1 -- Aerialbots, Protectobots, Constructicons, Stunticons, Combaticons, Breast Force etc. And sure, we did have G1 characters reimagined as gestalts, but they were shared-moulds or redecoes of the aforementioned canonically established gestalts. I personally never bothered with toys like CW Sunstreaker, Hound, Trailbreaker etc., but none of them were new/unique moulds and I'm fine with repaints fleshing out the line as it helps the line and there are obviously people who like these sort of repaints anyway (particularly those who skipped the previous CHUG versions of these characters) -- so it's a win-win for everyone.

Titans Return on the other hand went too far in making almost every 'bot and his dog a Headmaster - and these were new moulds. I really like TR Topspin, he was one of my favourite toys of 2017, but did he really need to be a Headmaster? (Answer: no) Happy to have the Monsterbots, but again, the Headmaster gimmick is pretty superfluous on them. I personally like the Headmaster gimmick, but I feel that they went overboard. When everyone's super then no-one will be. For classic Headmaster characters, I love that they made them Headmasters again. Because it means that when I got TR Mindwipe, I didn't just get a CHUG Mindwipe, I got Vorath as well. The thing that disappoints me about Generations Nightbeat is that he's not a Headmaster. There is no CHUG Muzzle. But this is because G1 bothered to build the Nebulans as individual characters that we grew up knowing about - we are familiar with the likes of Aimless, Blowpipe, Monzo, Arcana, Gort, Duros etc. Who the hell is Daburu? Can anyone give me a basic run down on Freezeout's character profile? That's the thing... I just don't know any of the new Titan Masters as people. I can't care about them. They're essentially little more than detachable accessories, much like the Energon figures on the G1 Motorvators.

With POTP I found that, for the most part, the combining gimmick was less intrusive than the Headmaster gimmick. The Headmaster gimmick is impossible to ignore. When I transform Topspin I have to use the gimmick. It's impossible otherwise. But with POTP I can choose to ignore te combining gimmick. I have never combined my POTP Dinobots -- I don't even own POTP Grimlock, but I've never even transformed the Deluxes into limb modes to attach to another torso-bot. And that's fine by me, I find that the Dinobots are all great toys regardless of the combining gimmick. And if you enjoy the combining gimmick, then that's great too. Again, it's a win-win for all. Okay, Elita-1 is pretty bulky and she's a jet now, but I'm fine with that. She's still a nice toy (and I never got Starscream so to me it's a new mould). Again, neeeeever bothered combining her with anyone. My Moonracer and Novastar have similarly never combined -- and the latter two are probably the most gimmick-compromised POTP toys that I own, but for the most part they're pretty neat toys where I can either take or leave the combining gimmick. Sure, Moonracer/Novastar are back-heavy in robot mode and have silly looking space-limousine modes, but again, I can ignore the combining gimmick. I can play with both toys and happily transform them between robot and limo modes without needing to ever touch the combining gimmick. Those silly hands just rest in my accessory storage and are never used. But I can't shove an unwanted Titan Master's head into storage! Gah!

Yeah, I know that this probably brings up the inherent stupidity of the Headmaster gimmick itself, but at least with characters based on G1 Headmasters I have the benefit of childhood nostalgia to generate appeal. Whereas with Neo Headmasters there's just nothing to make me want to care about... uh, you know... that dude that forms the head of Repugnus. Or, uh... that chick who forms the head of Quake. Is that girl? I don't even know who any of them are. Bring on Titan Master Hosehead with Lug! LUG!!!!!

[SharkyMcShark]

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I actually found the Titan Master gimmick less intrusive from a design perspective than the Combiner Wars gimmick. A lot of the Combiner Wars figures felt incredibly generic and overly simple because of the fact that they all needed to be a robot, vehicle, arm and leg, and the limbs had to be the same size across the line so they could be swapped around.

The Aerialbots were a wash because of this - three of the limbs were essentially the same figure (all four, if you're counting the UW release). Same goes with the Stunticons. I will concede that the Protectobots and Combaticons were at least insulated from this because of the variety of alt modes making up the team.

I'm with the rest of the posters in the thread who prefer lines without overarching gimmicks. If there is to be some unifying theme let it be something like Animated (dynamic head reveals for the transformations, and a line wide theme of Autobots using melee weapons only), or Studio Series with it's line wide consistent scale.

[GoktimusPrime]

The Aerialbots were a wash because of this - three of the limbs were essentially the same figure (all four, if you're counting the UW release). Same goes with the Stunticons. I will concede that the Protectobots and Combaticons were at least insulated from this because of the variety of alt modes making up the team.

These are all issues that they've inherited - for better or worse - from their G1 counterparts.

And fans go nutters when the toys aren't G1 enough for them. Just as Combiner Wars Blast Off and Groove.

I think the main drawback of having an overarching gimmick is that it starves the line of diversity.

Correction: the pink slice in the 1987 pie chart is meant to represent "gestalts"
Lines like TR had even less diversity than 1990 where 64% of TFs on shelves were Action Masters and 36% were Micromasters (I'm counting sets, not individual 'bots). 1990 in Japan probably had the lowest amount of diversity in Transformers since every toy released in that year with the sole exception of Metro Titan were Micromasters.

Having said that, TR obviously wasn't the only Transformers line released in mid-2016 to the end of 2017 - we also had Bayformers, Rescue Bots, MPs, RID, Rescue Bots etc. This is quite different from 20th Century TF lines where there would typically only be just one overarching line. Like sure, 1987 G1 had greater diversity than TR, but it was also all we had. But yeah, as far as diversity within Generations itself, these overarching gimmicky sublines can arguably reduce line diversity. Or improve line dedication/focus depending on how you look at it - but I'm guessing that more fans prefer diversity (which is totally understandable; a lack of diversity just makes things rather bland)

[Lint]

I actually found the Titan Master gimmick less intrusive from a design perspective

Agreed, I'd even go as far as to say that it liberated the designs. Without having a head in the way or a chest cavity to hide it in it opened up a lot of different transformation possibilities.

As for speculation I am still waiting for real pretenders

[GoktimusPrime]

Yeah... sorta. Although removing parts instead of concealing them kinda feels cheap and less satisfying. Take having retractable fists vs just removable fists like on so many G1 toys. I like toys with self-contained parts.

And ultimately the Titan Masters' heads are still stored in alt mode as the pilots. And this also brings something else that may be considered intrusive from a design POV - having to accommodate a cockpit for the pilot. Granted they've done a pretty good job, and I really love how a lot of these cockpit cavities collapse in robot mode instead of just being a hollow block like we had in G1 And I love how some of the Legends Class figures do this too, e.g. Wheelie, Bumblebee etc. TR Galvatron is an example of a toy that really didn't need to be a Headmaster and, IMO, suffers as a result of it. And I know that it's because the toy wasn't conceived as a Headmaster. I think it would've been a better toy if they kept to the original intention of having the head flip inside the chest instead of being a Headmaster. And that's the thing, if they weren't Headmasters and therefore didn't need to have a cockpit, they just as easily use that space to conceal the non-removable head. Head concealment isn't really an issue for most Transformers. Not since the days of Energon Ironhide anyway (and yeah, some other later exceptions like the first two Bayformers Megatrons etc.).

But I suppose making Titan Masters is one capital idea to stay ahead of the game. Who knows what's necks for Generations.

[Dan]

Are we getting to the point where it's only Action Masters left, and would Hasbro be foolish enough to try?

Personally, I think they've tried many times in recent years, simply by issuing non-transforming Transformers across various lines. I'm not sure it's foolish, although I suspect it's fooled quite a few parents who thought they'd bought something that was more than meets the eye.

But back on topic, I think it would be interesting to see original Action Master characters made as modern Transformers with their never-seen alt-modes finally revealed.

I would be prepared to buy authorized non-transforming toys of things like Lithons, Quintessons, Trans-Organics etc. I'm sure that's a pipe dream.