Movie megatron worth buying if it were done like this.

[GoktimusPrime]

jaydisc: Perhaps copyright laws for automobiles would differ for copyright laws on toys.

If we assume Hasbro's policy for custom versions of their toys is consistent across the toylines then selling custom TFs is fine as long as they are not sold in TF packaging, with TF trademarks or with any TF artwork.

Using a name like "Thunderwing" would not be allowed but colouring a toy in it's colours seems like more of a grey area.

*nods* Hence why the Classics Magnus trailer garage kit was called "City Commander."

people do customs all the time and name them with who they intend to portray.

Yes, but if you sold the customs with TF names then it is a violation of copyright laws. People do it, but it doesn't mean it's right (after all, people do manufacture and sell KOs too, and that's definitely illegal).

[jaydisc]

jaydisc: Perhaps copyright laws for automobiles would differ for copyright laws on toys.

Copying someone else's product is a copyright violation. Purchasing, optionally modifying, and reselling a product has nothing to do with copyright, whether it be a car or a toy. This is not analogous to a KO manufacturer whom is copying the product.

You don't license a toy from Hasbro, like you do a music recording or a piece of software. You purchase it and own it. You don't own the rights to reproduce it, but once you own it, the seller (in this case Hasbro) has no legal ability to dictate what you do with it, granted you don't infringe on their trademarks in the process.

Otherwise, based on what you're saying, if you wanted to sell a second hand Transformer, you couldn't refer to it as a Transformer.

[Saintly]

Copying someone else's product is a copyright violation. Purchasing, optionally modifying, and reselling a product has nothing to do with copyright, whether it be a car or a toy. This is not analogous to a KO manufacturer whom is copying the product.

You don't license a toy from Hasbro, like you do a music recording or a piece of software. You purchase it and own it. You don't own the rights to reproduce it, but once you own it, the seller (in this case Hasbro) has no legal ability to dictate what you do with it, granted you don't infringe on their trademarks in the process.

Otherwise, based on what you're saying, if you wanted to sell a second hand Transformer, you couldn't refer to it as a Transformer.

With cars, if you modify the car and using JD's example of Brabus buying Mercs. Once it is modified, Brabus can no longer sell it as a Merc but a Brabus. You can't even attached "Merc" in the name.

Similarly modifying an artwork, you would be modifying the design and hence would be illegal for sale. It is the case with Ferrari (apparently they are consider a work of art), therefore in the contract of sale... it does read you are not allow to modify it.

[GoktimusPrime]

Don't forget that this isn't just about copyright over toys, it's also about copyright over a character, that character's name, likeness etc.

I once read an article once in a toy magazine where they explained that if you scratch-built say a Batman toy and sold it that it was a copyright infringement because the Batman character, name and likeness is property of DC. Likewise "Thunderwing", his likeness and name are the intellectual property of Hasbro Inc. - so technically I think if you make a garage kit based on Thunderwing, and particularly if you actually call it Thunderwing and use any TF logos (e.g.: Decepticon insignia) then you could be in violation.

Again, this is why FansProject named their Ultra Magnus mod City Commander (and I've recently noticed that they have a black version for Nemesis Prime called "Shadow Commander").

...that's my understanding of it anyway. It's probably largely dependent on the nature of the custom.

Otherwise, based on what you're saying, if you wanted to sell a second hand Transformer, you couldn't refer to it as a Transformer.

I said nothing of the sort. I only said that, as I understand it, it may be an infringement to sell a custom based on an existing Transformer character - with the character (incl. name, likeness etc.) being HasTak's intellectual property.

There's a substantial difference between say purchasing MP Starscream then selling it second hand, and buying MP Starscream then repainting and selling it as MP Thundercracker.

[dirge]

You don't license a toy from Hasbro, like you do a music recording or a piece of software. You purchase it and own it. You don't own the rights to reproduce it, but once you own it, the seller (in this case Hasbro) has no legal ability to dictate what you do with it, granted you don't infringe on their trademarks in the process.

Fine, but modifying it to mimic an existing Hasbro product (in this case, Thunderwing) may infringe on those trademarks. Only if you sell it - you're not trading otherwise.

Otherwise, based on what you're saying, if you wanted to sell a second hand Transformer, you couldn't refer to it as a Transformer.

You're not passing anything off as your own work there - and I don't see how you think Goktimus is making that claim.

[jaydisc]

This is the comment that throws me:

Thunderwing on the other hand is Hasbro's intellectual property and one could perhaps argue that this custom, being a mere unmodified repaint, is too similar to movie Megatron too (so it's simultaneously infringing on two of Hasbro's properties).

I read this as Gok saying that there would be two infringements with this custom:

1. The infringement of using the potentially trademarked name and likeness of "Thunderwing"

2. The infringement of the fact that selling a modified Megatron is too similar too... Megatron.

The first I agree with:

granted you don't infringe on their trademarks in the process.

The second is the point I'm disagree with, granted I interpreted it correctly.

My point rephrased: There is nothing infringing about the act of selling a repainted or modified toy.

Addendum: I also believe that in this case, the seller could continue to use the terms Megatron and Transformer without infringing.