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Thread: SPOILER THREAD - The Last Jedi

  1. #61
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    Finally saw it today.

    I felt a bit bored by it... as it was pretty much a 2.5 hour chase from one planet to another planet. No epic battles, nothing really too exciting.

    EP7 felt like it had too much of EP4 plot devices, while EP8 felt like it had too much of EP5 plot devices. I guess the next one will be on a forest planet somewhere, with small furry creatures defeating the First Order for the Rebellion/Resistance.

    Having Rey not being related to anyone important could just be a lie from Ren... deception is the weapon of choice for those on the Dark Side.
    But it does make sense though - the Jedi were not allowed to have relationships or kids, as it could be used against them or be a distraction. The Skywalkers were the exception, because Anakin had his marriage and kids in secret, and Leia was able to as well because there was no Jedi order left to stop her.
    For generations, kids who were force sensitive were discovered and trained, not predicted based on who their parents were, or their force powers. It does make you wonder though, if force power is passed on genetically, why didn't the Jedi Order allow for reproduction, which would have made it easier to recruit those children, instead of hunting the galaxy for kids (like the kid at the end of EP8).

    The space chase scene really annoyed me, as the First Order couldn't just hyper-jump a couple of destroyers ahead of the Resistance ship? Were they that over-confident, they were willing to waste a whole day just to toy with them until they ran out of fuel.

    I enjoyed EP 1-3 more than the recent three. They were more exciting and epic... these recent three (Rogue One and EP7-8) just seem like episodes from a TV show season.

  2. #62
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    Force users are a rarity in the galaxy, so trying to increase the population by encouraging marriages between Force users would eventually diminish the gene pool and lead to in-breeding.

    Speaking of which, imagine if Luke and Leia never found out that they were siblings. The Sequels may have turned out quite differently indeed...

  3. #63
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    Well, they did appear to have hundreds of Jedi in Ep1, and they would still come across new younglings just from their presence on hundreds of worlds... and from those parents wanting their children to be Jedi, would be keen to send their force sensitive kids in to be tested. So, I'd imagine that there would still be enough new genetic material each year... and they'd be wise enough not to allow for any in-breeding (or have the technology to make sure there weren't any matching deformed genes).

    I guess the point I was wanting to make, was that the teachings of the Jedi and Sith can suddenly end, but while force sensitive/wielding people keep getting born, people will keep trying to learn how to use their powers, and that will lead to people using them to help others, while some people will use them to control others. And without any existing experience or guidance, you end up with a Lord of the Flies situation - generations of knowledge are no longer available to the people afflicted with the Force, so people will start their own from scratch, on their own, and independent from each other.
    In other words, while the Force still exists, it was selfish for any person (Luke and Ren) to want to destroy all the past knowledge and/or the people with the knowledge, of what the Force is, and its potential, because all future Force people are now left with "mutant super powers" that they may not be able to control, or will abuse it without anyone trained to stop them.

    Anyways... the whole movie felt like a 2.5 hour epilogue to Ep7 of their evacuation (especially after the whole sidetrack of Finn and Rose leading to nothing). At least the evacuation from Hoth in Ep5 was probably about 30 minutes, and we then focussed on the story of Luke's training and the Falcon crew trying to get back to the fleet.
    The Star Wars nerd in me likes the visuals and sound effects (even though they changed the sound of the lightsaber turning on, which annoys me), but it feels like sequel syndrome, in that they can't seem to give us something more epic than before, and have to resort to redoing old plot devices. (they feel like the Star Trek reboots, without the time travel reboot)

  4. #64
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    Finally saw it today. Easily the best Star Wars movie since the OT. I loved the portrayal of Luke. The disenchantment with the Jedi order he spoke of was so true and it was great to see it acknowledged canonically. I love that he wasn't what the EU made him into because EU Luke Skywalker was, from the books I have read, mostly an idiot.

    Didn't they turn Kylo around! What was a snotty, emo, unlikable brat in TFA turned into a genuine threat. Someone who, due to Snoke's prodding, transcended Darth Vader and took the leadership and power that Vader craved but never achieved. It was a little disappointing that Snoke died without much fleshing out but that was made up for in the way it was done. I totally was expecting that lightsaber to fly into Rey's hand, not Snoke's middle!

    Plenty of plot holes but compared to other SW movies they were pretty minor. I had no Robles with Leia saving herself and in fact, I thought the move to expand upon what could be done with the force was great.

    It wasn't perfect. But I enjoyed it. Which is more than I can say for Rogue One.
    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain

  5. #65
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    Just watched this yesterday. I wanted to love it but can only say I liked it.

    I came out of The Force Awakens immediately wanting to see it again but with this one I am happy to wait for the Blu-Ray. There were three specific scenes I felt moved by in TFA ( the first scene of the X-Wings saving Finn etc, Han's death and Rey using the force to take the lightsaber in the last fight scene). But in the Last Jedi nothing really moved me.

    I really wanted Snoke to last to the next one so we could learn more about him. Hux is just a caricature. The whole Finn and Rose thing was also out of nowhere and superfluous to the story.

    I did find the jokes funny and Poe has become my favourite character of these new films. The fight with the guards after Snoke's death was also cool. But nothing else really comes to mind.

  6. #66
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    Just my opinion RE: Snoke

    In the Original Trilogy we knew bugger all about the Emperor. We never knew that his name was Palpatine. The term "Sith" was never used either. All we knew about the Emperor was:
    * He was strong in the Dark Side of the Force and has special powers
    * He had seduced Anakin into the Dark Side
    * He was the head of the Empire and Vader's boss
    ...that's pretty much it! We knew nothing else about him. In TESB he appears as a hologram speaking to Vader, then in ROTJ he mostly skulks about before being chucked down a hole by an amputee Vader.

    Darth Maul was someone who got everyone super excited when trailers of The Phantom Menace came out. Yet he got hardly any dialogue, limited screen time and again, we know practically nothing about him. All we know is that:
    * He's Darth Sidious' Sith apprentice
    ...that's about it! His species (Zabrak) is never named, nor are the history of his tattoos or how he became a Sith blah blah blah Dathomir yada yada yada Nightsisters bleh. As far as the film was concerned, he was just some scary looking dude with pro sabre skills.

    So what do we know about Snoke?
    * He's a strong user of the Dark Side of the Force
    * Kylo Ren is his apprentice
    * He's the Supreme Leader of the First Order and has special powers
    That's honestly about as much as we knew about the Emperor in the Original Trilogy. Did we need to know any more about the Emperor? I mean, if you sat down and watched the OT without reading any books, watching any TV shows or the Prequel films etc. - i.e. if you just watched those movies on their own... they don't suffer from not knowing who the hell the Emperor is.

    Similarly I don't think that the Sequels really suffer from not knowing Snoke's background too. We don't need to know everyone's back stories. The movie should really focus on the main protagonist's journey -- in the OT it was Luke Skywalker, and in the ST it's Rey. Yes, I understand that this journey really isn't done as well as in the OT with too many side quests and issues with pacing etc., but pausing the narrative to tell more side stories doesn't help. This was the issue with things like the Casino Planet and Finn <3 Rose -- they're distracting side stories that could be either shortened or just omitted from the film. Same with Jar Jar Binks... all these distracting antics.

    Stories like these are better left for expanded canon like books, comics etc.

  7. #67
    drifand is offline Rank 6 - Dedicated Member
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    Hmm I disagree lol.
    I am leaning with Griffin experience.
    I think there was a whole lot more that should have been done instead of leaving JJ now with little to work with.

    Simply put there was no need to show Luke vanishing in this episode, could have drag it out in suspense that he is exhausted.

    Snoke dying was part of my prediction but I already knew the story may fall short in next chapter.

    Basically I knew Reylo wasn't going to happen either as it would be nothing else to tell unless Rey turn dark and Luke was still alive and unfortunately is not.

    I am still going to base on very straight forward ending. This is going to be beauty and the beast.

    Forget the twist or hidden plots. It's just going to be straight action movie and the end.

    I don't even care about the walkers on crate, they felt nothing compared to empire strikes back.

    People are not pleased that you can switch the lightsaber on with the force as it will be duelling and then turning your opponents lightsaber off suddenly.
    Why not use the force and just break the saber?
    Like said it introduced a lot of unjustified scenes.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    Just my opinion RE: Snoke

    In the Original Trilogy we knew bugger all about the Emperor. We never knew that his name was Palpatine. The term "Sith" was never used either. All we knew about the Emperor was:
    * He was strong in the Dark Side of the Force and has special powers
    * He had seduced Anakin into the Dark Side
    * He was the head of the Empire and Vader's boss
    ...that's pretty much it! We knew nothing else about him. In TESB he appears as a hologram speaking to Vader, then in ROTJ he mostly skulks about before being chucked down a hole by an amputee Vader.

    Darth Maul was someone who got everyone super excited when trailers of The Phantom Menace came out. Yet he got hardly any dialogue, limited screen time and again, we know practically nothing about him. All we know is that:
    * He's Darth Sidious' Sith apprentice
    ...that's about it! His species (Zabrak) is never named, nor are the history of his tattoos or how he became a Sith blah blah blah Dathomir yada yada yada Nightsisters bleh. As far as the film was concerned, he was just some scary looking dude with pro sabre skills.

    So what do we know about Snoke?
    * He's a strong user of the Dark Side of the Force
    * Kylo Ren is his apprentice
    * He's the Supreme Leader of the First Order and has special powers
    That's honestly about as much as we knew about the Emperor in the Original Trilogy. Did we need to know any more about the Emperor? I mean, if you sat down and watched the OT without reading any books, watching any TV shows or the Prequel films etc. - i.e. if you just watched those movies on their own... they don't suffer from not knowing who the hell the Emperor is.

    Similarly I don't think that the Sequels really suffer from not knowing Snoke's background too. We don't need to know everyone's back stories. The movie should really focus on the main protagonist's journey -- in the OT it was Luke Skywalker, and in the ST it's Rey. Yes, I understand that this journey really isn't done as well as in the OT with too many side quests and issues with pacing etc., but pausing the narrative to tell more side stories doesn't help. This was the issue with things like the Casino Planet and Finn <3 Rose -- they're distracting side stories that could be either shortened or just omitted from the film. Same with Jar Jar Binks... all these distracting antics.

    Stories like these are better left for expanded canon like books, comics etc.
    in OT the emperor is in the background and you don't need to know anything about him. He doesn't really take part in the story until the end. it isn't really required to know anything about him. you start off with the bad guys established and the good guys fighting them.

    in TFA hux and kylo meet with snoke and talk, what, 3 times? he is more involved in the story straight away and seems to have some kind of personal connection or interest in kylo. he is also the 'new' emperor leading the 'new' empire. I think in this context he needs more explanation.

  9. #69
    drifand is offline Rank 6 - Dedicated Member
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    There are even talks that the dialogue that Snoke says before he gets killed has predicted his own death and was ready for it. Something within the lines of strike him down and kill his true enemy?

    I think not and it was just a simple boohoo that he force was focused on Rey and wasn't prepared for Kylo's betrayal as Kylo is facing him about to strike Rey, and shielded his thoughts well from Snoke.

    Episode nine, will be interesting and not prepared if we see Leia taking out her lightsaber hidden all this while and starts training Rey. That would WOW me as it wasn't predictable but I dont think it will happen.

    I didn't feel the movie was long at all. Also I think thats the end of Phasma?

    To me this movie is 6.5ish, and could have done a lot better. I preferred Force Awakens.

    My issue is the story seem to be disjoint a bit, is like JJ lead the way and Rian just did what he wanted, and JJ now is looking at what options he can do. I be very surprised if the story turns for the better, and like to be proven wrong.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by drifand View Post
    Episode nine, will be interesting and not prepared if we see Leia taking out her lightsaber hidden all this while and starts training Rey. That would WOW me as it wasn't predictable but I dont think it will happen.
    Yeah.... I don't think that will happen.

    I think there might be a lengthy time gap before the next movie, as the Resistance is down to about 20 people, with no ships or resources... and no allies willing to help them. That's a lot of rebuilding, if they are to be a believable force against the First Order.
    Then again, the FO managed to only take about 20 years to build themselves up from nothing, into a force powerful enough to take over the galaxy... something that the Empire did with the support of the Republic/Imperial Senate and its wealth, plus a secret building of a clone army and its weapons/ships over a period of about the same time.
    To me, it doesn't seem plausible that the FO grew to be so powerful, without the backing of a government/Empire, to force conscription. Is their galaxy so instinctively evil, that millions of people were willingly join up to conquering force, over a peaceful one? After decades of an oppressively cruel Empire, the galaxy celebrated its end (in ROTJ), and yet a few years later, the only real opposition to a similarly oppressive First Order is a small resistance, and are rejected or ignored by the galaxy they fight for. It just seems unlikely.

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