SPOILER THREAD - The Last Jedi

[Trent]

The feeling I got when I saw TLJ is that it was similar to ESB... with the Empire chasing evacuating Rebels, and a Jedi in training... and left at the end with a dire situation for the Rebels (not a victory).
After having ep7 feeling like ep4, I was annoyed that ep8 felt like ep5... because it meant the people at Disney don't care about the new franchise they bought, to give us something original.



I get the point of Honest Trailers, but it usually savages really bad movies this bad... and if there are redeeming features, there will be a mention, or left out - it felt like no character or plot device was left untouched in this HT.
And that's one reason I like HT, because they will usually say why things are bad, and not just say something sucked like an internet troll.

Well, I suppose the first thing to point out is that your opinion of whether TLJ was “this bad” is pretty subjective. I personally think it is one of the better Star Wars movies and poops over any of the prequel movies. And that is the point of the HT, rather than making fun of the movie itself, it makes fun of just how polarising the movie was. Just look at the fact that they used two narrators representing polar opposites of opinions. They point out both the bad and the good in the movie. Is the movie full of plot holes? Of course, just like any other Star Wars movie. Does it waste out time with boring sub plots? Well, yes, so does every prequel movie. Does it follow the basic formula of eps 4, 5 and 6? Yes. But again, so do the prequels.

I know I bang on about this but it just amazes me how so many people shit all over Rian Johnson and TLJ acting like he ruined SW. But people forget, It was already ruined by George Lucas with Pod Racing, Jar Jar Binks, Hayden Christiansen, The entirety of Attack of the Clones, The Jedi Council, How Padme died. I could go on. The beauty of TLJ is that Rian actively addresses the stupidity of the Jedi Council. He echos the things I’ve been shaking my head at for years and tries to correct them like how only Skywalkers can be powerful Jedi. He tried something new within the constraints he had and it worked. It just wasn’t what the fandom had built it up to be.

But I understand how others don’t necessarily like the direction. The plot devices left unexplored from TFA was a little disappointing but I think what was gained in unshackling the characters and story from predetermined outcomes was well worth it.

[drifand]

My main issue is the story wasn’t told properly.

I don’t feel sorry for Rian because he has been outright very defensive about his decisions. Meaning to say this movie can’t be as any more perfect than what he has produced which I would disagree and could have made it better even staying true to his ideas.

Before tlj I didn’t know who is Rian Johnson, now I know very well but not for the positive reasons unfortunately.

[bowspearer]

My main issue is the story wasn’t told properly.

I don’t feel sorry for Rian because he has been outright very defensive about his decisions. Meaning to say this movie can’t be as any more perfect than what he has produced which I would disagree and could have made it better even staying true to his ideas.

Before tlj I didn’t know who is Rian Johnson, now I know very well but not for the positive reasons unfortunately.

Interesting that you bring it up. This film editor is giving Rian Johnson the finger by re-editing the entire film and so far it's looking very promising.

[SharkyMcShark]

Interesting that you bring it up. This film editor is giving Rian Johnson the finger by re-editing the entire film and so far it's looking very promising.

That should be interesting to follow. Not a fan of the use of the force theme in that scene though.

I'm a big advocate of fan edits in general. The gold standard has to be the Star Wars Revisisted project - I prefer the adywan versions of ANH and ESB over the current Lucasfilm approved cuts.

(not really sure why it has to be framed as 'giving Rian Johnson the finger'?)

[bowspearer]

(not really sure why it has to be framed as 'giving Rian Johnson the finger'?)

I was paraphrasing the guy doing it. In an interview he did - I think it was with Geeks and Gamers, that was the exact turn of phrase he used.

[shockNwave]

Recently watched TLJ for a second time. Definitely not aging like a fine wine and is aging worse than TFA. But the lightspeed kamikaze attack on Snoke's ship remains priceless and the best scene in the film.

[bowspearer]

Recently watched TLJ for a second time. Definitely not aging like a fine wine and is aging worse than TFA.

So you mean it's aging like milk?

[Bidoofdude]

That should be interesting to follow. Not a fan of the use of the force theme in that scene though.

I'm a big advocate of fan edits in general. The gold standard has to be the Star Wars Revisisted project - I prefer the adywan versions of ANH and ESB over the current Lucasfilm approved cuts.

(not really sure why it has to be framed as 'giving Rian Johnson the finger'?)

The Force theme was originally Luke's theme, but ended up so overused that it became the theme for the force. It's probably my favourite piece out of the lot, but I'll be damned if they haven't run it into the ground.

[shockNwave]

The Force theme was originally Luke's theme, but ended up so overused that it became the theme for the force. It's probably my favourite piece out of the lot, but I'll be damned if they haven't run it into the ground.

Originally there was the Emperor's theme but after it was used as Darth Maul's/Darth Sidious' theme in TPM it became the theme of the dark side of the force from that point onwards.
On one hand it would help if John William's could be more creative but on the other hand taking risks could blow up in John's face if the new theme is substandard.

[GoktimusPrime]

From the Rise of Skywalker Spoiler discussion thread:

Re: Canto Bite, there are two things to consider

1) It was meant to fail. It was a dogfaeces plan, that then failed and got a bunch of people killed, same as the plan to attack the Dreadnought at the start of the film. It's part of Poe's arc. He has to learn that you can't lead by flying by the seat of your pants. You can't lead on rash impulse. That might get you by as a fighter pilot, but it gets people hurt when you apply it to leading. As with Luke in ESB, the film bothers to show him and his plans failing. I'm not saying its my favourite section in any Star Wars film, but it has a purpose. Ironically, to say it was pointless and led to nothing is both to miss the point entirely but also kind of get it. It doesn't move the plot forward - in fact it hinders our protagonists. It absolutely moves Poe's character forward though.

2) It really doesn't take that much screen time up. It's literally two sections. The first is that they land and get chucked in jail. The second is when they escape from prison and free the planet. It's not like it's cutting back for forth for the whole middle third of the film.

As you've just pointed out, in those other examples, the failure was an important part of the character's development. It was meant to be painful lesson for Poe to care about the wellbeing of those under his command and not blindly sacrifice his troops for the sake of completing missions. Otherwise they'd be no better than the First Order who treat their soldiers as entirely expendable resources (and strips them of their humanity). I'm not entirely sure what Finn and Rose's personal journeys were with the Canto Bite scene, and especially if it was worth the narrative diversion.

I wasn't entirely satisfied with Poe's journey either... the whole mutiny side-plot seemed unnecessary. I get that it's telling us that he's trying to grow and learn as a leader, but they already accomplished that with the Dreadnought bombing scene. Extending it with the mutiny thing seemed unnecessary (again, less is more) and also illogical from a story POV. Why didn't Leia and Holdo just tell Poe what the plan was? Especially when he had guns pointed at Holdo. We see that when Poe discovers Holdo's plan he actually thinks it's a good one and wholeheartedly agrees with it. Why didn't they just do this from the beginning? Geez...

Not necessarily - the First Order only picked up the Resistance transports because DJ sold them out to save himself, which he wouldn't have been able to do if Rosefinn hadn't recruited him and then let him overhear Poe talking about them having cloaked ships. I mean sure somebody on the Supercalifragilistic might've thought to scan for cloaks anyway just in case (you'd think that'd be routine, but maybe once you've built a ship 60km wide there's not much left in the budget for repairing wear-and-tear on the scanners so they save money by just having a guy look out the window instead), but just from what's on screen it looks like Holdo's original plan (the one that didn't involve ramming) might've worked. Of course they'd still have needed somebody to come pick them up, but they'd have had more time to play with while the First Order chased an empty cruiser, and "Hey can we get an Uber?" might have gotten a better response from the Resistance's so-called allies than "Hey giant laser pointed at us and we're doomed, wanna come join in?"

This makes me dislike the Canto Bite side-quest even more now.