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Thread: Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker *****SPOILER THREAD*****

  1. #51
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    I saw it on Boxing day and thought it was okay. Better than the last two in this trilogy... mainly because this one didn't recycle plot elements from the original trilogy like episode 7 and 8 did (they were like watching a reboot of episode 4 and 5).

    The other two movies in the trilogy had been playing on TV a few times by the nine network in NOV-DEC, so I recorded both and watched them several times in the weeks leading up to this final one, to help make sense of anything that played off a previous movie (as well as to re-familiarise myself on the new characters introduced in 7 and 8 ).

    - Rey being Palpatine's grand-daughter - when they said that in the movie, I was so distracted for about 5 minutes, trying to get my head around how that could be possible. I guess he could have had groupies or gold-diggers.... or he enslaved someone as a concubine and used mind-control just to create a sith offspring, but even if he had a child, there is no way that child would have been able to roam free or hook up with anyone that Palpatine and his followers didn't allow. They would have been locked away in some isolated, barren world, and trained as a sith, while being paired up with another sith to create an even more powerful child as their offspring. I can't believe that Palpatine's child, and the person they hooked up with, wouldn't be loyal to Palpatine (at least one would remain loyal, even if one wavered and wanted to escape with their child.

    - Finn appearing to be force-sensitive - in Rogue One, the blind Jedi Temple attendant was force-sensitive, but not strong enough with the force to become a jedi or sith, so Finn is probably like him. It was just difficult to believe that he now had the ability, but nothing was ever noted in the last two movies. (almost like a retcon)

    - The ability of Rey and Ben to be able to hand off objects to each other from great distances... seemed to be a new trick from Disney's version of Star Wars, and it kinda got annoying how often it was now being used. It was a nice trick, especially when one was in a bind, but it felt like a cheat when they kept using it. Same with the force-healing ability that was new to this movie... it was required as the key plot device to turn Ben back, but to suddenly show up in this movie, felt wrong.

    - The Skywalker "ranch" (farm) on Tattooine was rebuilt, but no one was living there? It was destroyed by Storm Troopers in Ep 4, so if someone rebuilt it to look exactly the same, why weren't they currently living there?

    - Lando was totally under-used. Maybe the actor was just too old and frail to be able to do much moving about (like Carrie Fisher in Ep 8, as Leia did a lot of standing and hobbling in that one).

    - Hux was also under-used. He was the leading First Order officer in Ep7, then pushed back to third in the hierarchy in Ep8, to almost be a cameo character in Ep9 and quickly killed off. He wasn't shot for being the spy, he was shot for being incompetent and then labelled as the spy... without any evidence. That's Imperial justice.

    - If the three movies of this trilogy were written at the same time, we would have seen hints or clues to Palpatine being around, even if it was Snoke mentioning "his master" in conversation, without saying who it was. None of that happened in Ep 7 and 8, making it feel like he was added to this one after 7 and 8 were filmed. Just a few minor mentions of a mysterious puppet master would have made these three movies feel more like a trilogy. Even Luke noted that he and Leia knew that Rey was a Palpatine, but nothing was noted in Ep7 or 8 by either of them... and it actually contradicts Luke asking Rey who she really was, when he started training her. As it stands, this movie could have easily been episode 7, replacing the other two, and just having some short flashbacks added in to explain why Han and Luke were ghosts.
    (if the directors of the three movies were clever, they could have had Rey having saber movements that were identical to Palpatine in Ep 3, so that it was an easter egg from the beginning... even though sword-skills are like fingerprints, in that everyone is different, it probably would have been too subtle to be worth doing)

    - Back when Ep 1 was released, I had a theory that Senator Palpatine was actually possessed by a powerful Sith, because of his concern for Padme and his home planet (if Jedi can come back as ghosts, why not have Sith be able to come back as ghosts as well, but be more invasive by taking possession of others). Having Palpatine in Ep 9 claim that he could possess Rey if she kills him, reminded me of that really old theory of mine.

    - Another theory I had way back related to the prophecy (someone bringing balance to the Force), in that "balance" only occurs when there are an equal number on each side, or an absence of all on each side. The Star Wars Movies never had a true "balance" because there were always Jedi or Sith, and one always outnumbered the other. Anyway, my theory was that at some point in time, all Jedi and Sith would be gone, and there would only be neutral Force-Sensitive people with white lightsabers, not to be involved in the affairs of the Galaxy (not to conquer or police it), other than to prevent the return of the Jedi and the Sith. At the end of Ep 9, we have Rey with a new lightsaber that has a white blade, and the Sith and Jedi are finally thought to be all gone (until the next Disney movie or TV series that needs the element of Jedi/Sith for them to cash in on, with toys and ratings).

    - Another damn annoying droid... it wasn't needed for the story, but allows Disney/Hasbro to sell more toys.

    - Some backstory to Poe was good to see. It took some shine off his hero status, but not much. And why did the female "friend" never reveal her face?

    - The scenes with Leia - these were said to be filmed during one of the previous two movies, but I just can't pinpoint where those scenes would have made sense in the run of Rey's story. For Leia to be training Rey with Luke's lightsaber, it would have had to have been before she left to find Luke at the end of Ep 7 ... but when she was with Luke, she didn't seem to have any of the force powers yet that were in these "deleted scenes with Leia".

    - Luke training Leia flashback - this should have been a flashback scene BEFORE Leia was blown out into space in Ep 8, as her use of the force in that scene seemed very unbelievable, due to her never being shown to having force abilities before that point.

    - Finding the second navigation device, only to have it destroyed - what a waste, running around several planets during the middle of the movie, only to have it destroyed as soon as Rey finds it. At least have her use it when she defeated Ben, as he didn't need to still have it in his ship.

    - The ragtag fleet that arrives at the end of the movie - first of all, it was totally wasted, as this massive fleet of ships show up, and we don't have a significant battle between them and the Star Destroyers. The focus was on the planet below, and we didn't end up seeing much ship-to-ship fighting. Rogue One had a better space battle scene than this one.
    And secondly, it didn't make sense that at the end of Ep 8, no one in the whole galaxy was willing to come help the Rebels take on the small remaining force of the First Order, in which just a few friendly ships would have easily helped outnumber the surviving Star Destroyers.... but at the end of Ep 9, we have thousands of ships willing to fly into an uncharted area of space to take on thousands of Star Destroyers, in what would have sounded like a trap.

    The ironic thing is that when I first saw Rogue One, I didn't like it because of everyone being killed off (it wasn't even necessary, as we saw in the Rebels cartoon, with all but one of the main crew surviving to the end), but the movie has really grown on me, and I've watched it several times... and will still watch it again when it is on TV. The story is more interesting and makes more sense than Ep 7 and 8... it flows better and doesn't have redundant plot elements to distract you from what is going on. And Rogue One has a much better final battle (in space and on the surface) than any of the space battles in Ep 7-9.

    I'll see Ep 9 again, but maybe not until it shows up on TV in two years time.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    Same with the force-healing ability that was new to this movie... it was required as the key plot device to turn Ben back, but to suddenly show up in this movie, felt wrong.
    Force Heal has been around for yonks. It costs the character 1 turn and 1 Force Point and removes 1 point of Damage from an adjacent character. Oh sorry, I mean, in the cinematic universe we've previously seen Obi-Wan Kenobi use it, but not to the same extent as what Rey and Ben can do.

    • Episode II: Obi-Wan attempts to heal a fallen Jedi but it is too late. Although Episode IX does show that using Force Heal to resurrect a recently deceased being is basically a sacrificial move, which wouldn't make sense in the Battle of Geonosis

    • Episode III: Obi-Wan uses Force Heal on Padme to try and keep her alive (he does succeed in extending her life long enough to be evacuated to Polis Massa and to give birth to the twins; she (and the twins) may have otherwise died on Mustafar

    • Episode IV: Obi-Wan uses Force Heal to help Luke recover after having been assaulted by Tusken Raiders

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    I saw it on Boxing day and thought it was okay. Better than the last two in this trilogy... mainly because this one didn't recycle plot elements from the original trilogy like episode 7 and 8 did (they were like watching a reboot of episode 4 and 5).
    So you didn’t notice the recurring the theme of being able to rely on your friends just like in ROTJ? The attempt by Kylo Ren to turn Rey to the dark side, just like Vader did in ROTJ? A (bunch of) new planet killing weapon that threaten to solidify Palpatine’s power in the galaxy? The ragtag bunch of rebels on a do or die mission to destroy said weapons? The rebels can’t destroy these weapons until a small strike force take out a vital piece of infrastructure or the whole assault would be in vain? Palpatine’s disciple ultimately switching sides and sacrificing himself to save the protagonist? The protagonist ultimately facing their fear and refusing to do Palpatine’s bidding by not giving in to their fear and hatred? All of which was lifted straight out of Return of the Jedi.

    You didn’t notice any of these things Griff? Are you sure you went to see Star Wars?
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    Force Heal has been around for yonks. It costs the character 1 turn and 1 Force Point and removes 1 point of Damage from an adjacent character. Oh sorry, I mean, in the cinematic universe we've previously seen Obi-Wan Kenobi use it, but not to the same extent as what Rey and Ben can do.

    • Episode II: Obi-Wan attempts to heal a fallen Jedi but it is too late. Although Episode IX does show that using Force Heal to resurrect a recently deceased being is basically a sacrificial move, which wouldn't make sense in the Battle of Geonosis


    • Episode III: Obi-Wan uses Force Heal on Padme to try and keep her alive (he does succeed in extending her life long enough to be evacuated to Polis Massa and to give birth to the twins; she (and the twins) may have otherwise died on Mustafar


    • Episode IV: Obi-Wan uses Force Heal to help Luke recover after having been assaulted by Tusken Raiders
    If that was what they were doing, it was not mentioned or made obvious. To me it looks more like someone checking to see if a person is still alive, like a doctor checking a pulse... a jedi might just be feeling if their life-force was still there and how strong it still was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trent View Post
    So you didn’t notice the recurring the theme of being able to rely on your friends just like in ROTJ? The attempt by Kylo Ren to turn Rey to the dark side, just like Vader did in ROTJ? A (bunch of) new planet killing weapon that threaten to solidify Palpatine’s power in the galaxy? The ragtag bunch of rebels on a do or die mission to destroy said weapons? The rebels can’t destroy these weapons until a small strike force take out a vital piece of infrastructure or the whole assault would be in vain? Palpatine’s disciple ultimately switching sides and sacrificing himself to save the protagonist? The protagonist ultimately facing their fear and refusing to do Palpatine’s bidding by not giving in to their fear and hatred? All of which was lifted straight out of Return of the Jedi.

    You didn’t notice any of these things Griff? Are you sure you went to see Star Wars?
    Those are just small plot elements... I was referring to the overall premise or structure of the three movies.
    (I'm not saying that Ep 7 and 8 are mirror images of the Original Trilogy, but they seemed to play out as if they were written by someone asked to replicate the premise of Ep 4 and 5... something that Ep 1-3 didn't need to resort to.)

    Ep 7 (4) - finding the chosen one on a desert planet, meeting up with a smuggler duo who don't really want to get involved but get them to the rebels, and then ending with the rebels destroying the "deathstar" before it destroys them.
    Ep 8 (5) - being chased through space by the "empire", having a ground assault with AT-ATs on a snow/salt planet (in a different order between the two movies), a Jedi in training, and having an ending of loss instead of victory.
    The flaws in Ep 9's plot (which I noted in the previous post) prevented it from being similar to any of the previous 8 movies, but did have a similar feel to Rogue One, in that there was a mission spread across several locations (not just one or two locations like the previous 5 Episodes), needing every step to go right in order to get to the end with a completed mission.

    (to be fair, Ep 6 was very similar in premise to Ep 4 as well, starting out on a desert planet and ending with the rebels taking on a deathstar, with a side-mission on a forest moon thrown in as something different)

  5. #55
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    Short review - I ended up really liking this film as I was watching it, however I find that only some of it has really stuck with me.

    I felt the opening was off, and the lead in felt completely disjointed from where we had left off the last movie. Some reworking of the set-up would have made the movie much better. Instead it felt like "Brand New Story! Go!".

    But once we were set up and going it felt like Star Wars and was a fantastic finish to the set of 9 films and helped set up a future that basically wraps up the legacy characters and continues Episode 8's ending which opened up the force to people that weren't just chosen to be Jedi or born into a family lineage.

    That feels to me the theme of this movie - our freedom to choose the paths that make us who we are, rather than being dictated by "destiny".


    I personally would have set up the film from where we left Ep 8 - a physically and emotionally dwindled resistance making hit and run ops on a First Order led by Kylo Ren, and his Knights - sidelining the existing First Order military structure. The voice of Palpatine begins to makes its presence felt in the first battle scene, leading to both sides investigating the Wayfinders. Kylo Ren to diverts the military resources to finding the Wayfinder, further insulting Hux and the newer military leaders while the older leaders (Richard E Grant & co) like the potential shift back to the old ways. This leads into the rest of our film with Rey / her training and everything from there onwards

  6. #56
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    So the mary sue retcon is over? HOORAY! Starwars finished at ep6.
    Code:
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    Quote Originally Posted by MV75 View Post
    So the mary sue retcon is over? HOORAY! Starwars finished at ep6.
    If you wanna be like that, then it started with episode 4.
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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trent View Post
    If you wanna be like that, then it started with episode 4.
    LOL!

    I really enjoyed the movie, I loved TLJ and hoped some things carried on over but of course not everything could. The only thing I would've liked is 10-20mins of more dialogue

  9. #59
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    I don't get the complaints "we've never seen anyone before using force power XYZ, it's bullshit"
    Like are you expecting there to be some documentary or movie that explains every single force power ever used or described or invented? Why can't people come up with new powers? Why is it so weird that you see something for the first time??

  10. #60
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    Theres a rumor that the movie was 3 hours and j j abrams will not do a disney movie again after they altered the movie that he directed originally

    can not find the link again

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