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Thread: Masterpieces - are we spoiled?

  1. #21
    Jellico is offline Rank 6 - Dedicated Member
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    But you have to wonder about some of the missing ones like the Dinobots and Insecticons. Neither are licensed. Giant transforming robot dinosaurs are a license to print money, and a lack of Cons has long been a MP complaint. Jetfire is unlicensed and there is a proven market for a bot that big at that quality.

    Anything 86. Why stop at Hotrod and Magnus? MP Unicron is going to come out before Galvatron?

    Look at all the BW MPs. Good for them, but it makes a mockery of the idea a lack of repaint opportunities is holding the 84-86 back.

    That got a bit ranty. But yeah. Odd choices. And the longer the line continues the less our assumptions as buyers make sense.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaptoDog View Post
    Ok well that explains it. There's really no point in double counting Hasbro and Takara releases when they have been identical in recent years. Also the 2019 list includes 5 atmos safari versions that were never released for sale. I'm going to redo your list with a chart and only include duplicate Hasbro/Takara releases where there were significant deco differences (eg Sunstorm). I think the numbers will look quite different on that basis.
    I just made the list based on TFwiki's MP page. There are some collectors out there who are super fussy about the difference between duplicate Hasbro and Takara releases, even if the difference is just some variation on the box.

    Anyway, here's a trimmed down list removing all variants and duplicates. I am going to count repaints who are whole new characters separately. e.g. Starscream, Skywarp and Thundercracker are separate characters. But I'm going to count variants of the same character as 1 (e.g. I'm counting MP32 but discounting MP38). And to make things simpler, I'm just going to ignore all special limited exclusive toys; I'm just looking at regular store release figures here. I am counting the earliest version of each toy and discounting any subsequent versions (e.g. I'm counting MP3 Starscream as 1 for 2006, but discounting the 2007 Hasbro variant). If you own a later version then just count it for the year of its earliest release -- I own Hasbro's MP3 but not Takara's, so I'm just going to count that as 1 for 2006. I'm also not counting the early MPMs which are just repackaged Bayformer Leaders.
    Exception: I'm counting the MP11 Seekers all separately (Thundercracker, Skywarp & Coneheads) even though they were limited exclusives. I'm also counting MP15/16E as 1 because not only are they new characters, but Nightstalker is an entirely new mould (but the whole set counts as 1). Other than that I'm ignoring all the exclusives.
    P.S.: This is why it was easier to count everything -- deciding on what to ignore and not ignore is tricky and totally subjective. Watch people reply with unhappy comments now about what I should and shouldn't have included.

    2003/4 = 1
    2005 = 1
    2006 = 1
    2007 = 2
    2008 = 1
    2009 = 1
    2010 = 0
    2011 = 2
    2012 = 3
    2013 = 7
    2014 = 3
    2015 = 6
    2016 = 8
    2017 = 9
    2018 = 6
    2019 = 7

    So looking at this trimmed down list, we can see that in the first eight years of MP there was an average of 1 (1.1) toys per year. In the second half of the MP period we can see that there is an average of 6 (6.1) toys per year. This means that the average number of MPs being released in more recent years is SEXTUPLE that of what we had in the first half!

    Feel free the modify the list as you see fit and see how the numbers compare. I think the trend is that there is, on average, many more MPs released between 2012 to 2019 than 2003/4 to 2011.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaptoDog View Post
    Ok well that explains it. There's really no point in double counting Hasbro and Takara releases when they have been identical in recent years. Also the 2019 list includes 5 atmos safari versions that were never released for sale. I'm going to redo your list with a chart and only include duplicate Hasbro/Takara releases where there were significant deco differences (eg Sunstorm). I think the numbers will look quite different on that basis.
    Ok here's the chart based on the above criteria that expresses what I was getting at. Obviously each release is not created equal so I've tried to distinguish the G1 + repaints that are essentially the same mold and character but in a toy or toon deco, which are seen as less essential by some depending on the degree of redeco.



    If you are a G1 centric collector like me then just by going off the number of releases 2013-2016 was an amazing period. This obviously doesn't speak to quality but that is very subjective.

    We can see that from 2017 onwards there has been a substantial drop-off in G1 figures excluding + repaints being released. As Dirge highlighted, part of that is explained by the fact that the easy multiple character repaints (Datsuns, Lambos etc) have been mostly done. However, Takara is definitely milking the molds less with Diaclone repaints substantially scaled back (eg Red Sunstreaker and Deepcover out of Sideswipe were previously considered gimmes). I imagine this has been done because they didn't sell well enough or they are simply prioritising factory slots on Movie and Beast Wars figures.

    You could argue that we were spoiled over 2013-2016 and now need to adjust to the new normal. If your objective is simply to fill out the G1 cast then this would be disappointing.

    Having said that, I do also enjoy the Movie Masterpiece figures so for me personally it's not that bad.
    Last edited by DaptoDog; 25th January 2020 at 07:48 PM. Reason: Updated chart

  4. #24
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    In the early days of Masterpiece I think it's worth considering Binaltech as part of it. The collector focus, licensed car models, G1 characters, in scale with MP01 it was doing a version of what later MP toys would do, just without the cartoon accuracy.

    I remember how excited we all were when the first images of Smokescreen appeared, and to be honest I don't think any was quite as good as a "modern" remake of a G1 Autobot Car until the MPs line started with them in the MP10 scale. (Although some people have commented how the prefer Binaltech/Alternator Hound to MP Hound)

  5. #25
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    Some good info here
    Anybody care to do a graph with only unique moulds & no repaints or remoulds?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jellico View Post
    But you have to wonder about some of the missing ones like the Dinobots and Insecticons. Neither are licensed. Giant transforming robot dinosaurs are a license to print money, and a lack of Cons has long been a MP complaint. Jetfire is unlicensed and there is a proven market for a bot that big at that quality.
    I suspect the Insecticons (which, let's face it got almost no characterisation) would not sell all that well due to the less realistic alt modes. Lots of kids loved Hound or Smokescreen because they were recogniseable cars. Even if neither really got the same level of characterisation as say Bumblebee or Grimlock. Similarly, the Dinobots aside from Grimlock & Swoop got little characterisation. Grimlock is the Dinobot everyone remembers.

    As for a lack of Decepticons, I'm surprised we've seen neither Astrotrain or Blitzwing. Both would sell well & you could do wonders for those two at MP level complexity. I know I'd snap both up!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jellico View Post
    Anything 86. Why stop at Hotrod and Magnus? MP Unicron is going to come out before Galvatron?
    Well, they did Ratbat but screwed us over by only bundling him with Soundblaster.

    Perhaps partly a lack of repaint opportunities (the Battlechargers spring to mind, but they're hardly prominent) and a lack of memorable characters. Aside from Hot Rod/Rodimus, Magnus, Grimlock, Galvatron & Cyclonus who really got much attention in the media? A lack of a Galvatron is surprising, but I'm not surprised we've yet to see a MP Blurr. The 1986 Decepticons, BTW, were actually very sparse once you take out the combiner teams.

    Personally, I'd LOVE Masterpiece Stunticons & Aerialbots (also appeared in season 2 of the cartoon, so from a character POV I lump them into 1985) and would bite your hand off for a Masterpiece Pipes... but Pipes was hardly prominent and I know he'd sell poorly. Even if I'd probably buy two


    Eagerly waiting for Masterpiece Meister

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnertwin View Post
    Some good info here
    Anybody care to do a graph with only unique moulds & no repaints or remoulds?
    I got you.



    By number of unique moulds the line has never been stronger. Though while 2019 yielded 3 new G1 moulds, Hound is the only new G1 mould of a previously unreleased character in the last two years.

    Note: I'm no expert on Alternators / Binaltech so didn't include them in this for the early years, though it is an interesting perspective Paulbot.

  8. #28
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    Thanks DD! Really puts it into perspective for me looking at how many new designs they've released over the last few years.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnertwin View Post
    Thanks DD! Really puts it into perspective for me looking at how many new designs they've released over the last few years.
    Yeah good job mate. I never would have guessed that 4 was the high point on original G1 releases and that we had 3 last year. 2018 though... yikes... they owe us now. Gimme more original G1! I want Dinobots and more Decepticons!

  10. #30
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    Looking at DaptoDog's first chart, we can see that the average number of MP releases per year in the first half is 3 (2.8), whereas in the second half the average annual number of MPs is 11 (10.6). This means that the second half has seen nearly quadruple (x3.8) the number of MP releases. In DaptoDog's second chart, we can see that the average number of annual MP releases in the first half is 1 (0.8), whereas in the second half it's exactly 4, so by this count the number of annual MPs in has quintupled (4/0.8=5).

    So no matter how we choose to move these goal posts, we can see that the average number of MPs released per year in more recent years has greatly increased compared to those released in the early years. If we average those averages...
    * Counting all MPs = x6
    * Discounting variants and duplicates = x4
    * Counting MP releases = x4
    * Counting new MP moulds = x5
    So we can see that average the number of MPs released per year has quintupled (x4.8).

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