Masterpieces - are we spoiled?

[Seraphim Prime]

Reviving an old thread - I was wondering where people had found the information about the change in factory materials for Hound, and came across TFW2005's Wonderfest Report, which includes the following:

Regarding the recent constant price increment: Takara Tomy booth director mentioned that fans have overly demanded for the cartoon aesthetic. So in order to pull off the cartoon aesthetic while maintaining the proper alt mode, the number of parts for each figure has gone up compared to the Masterpiece Datsuns or Wheeljack. The cost of materials has also gone up which also contributes to the rise in pricing. On this matter, Gamelingual let him know that many fans feel that they will be forced to quit the hobby if the prices become too expensive. The response was that this this is something they have discussed with the executives and it contributes to the decisions of what figures will be made next.

Where's the overwhelming demand for cartoon accuracy coming from?

I know there was a huge appreciation for the level of "magic" achieved with figures like Dinobot and Megatron, but I feel that cartoon accuracy is demanded there because the models were so defined.

The G1 cartoon can hardly be called consistent even within itself, let alone being consistent with other sources. I think everyone loved the Datsun, Lancia, and Sideswipe moulds because they gave us a wonderful balance of cartoon likeness, effective transformation, and realistic vehicle. It was a the best representation of everything that that character was - not a screen accurate replica that allows us to re-enact the cartoon.

I feel like the obsession with cartoon accuracy is giving us poorer quality figures at much greater prices, and I for one would gladly sacrifice perfect accuracy for a figure that was more affordable and could be handled more frequently and without needing to be extra delicate.

[dirge]

Where's the overwhelming demand for cartoon accuracy coming from?

My understanding is it's the Japanese fans. TakaraTomy still do their fansurveys, but geoblock them so only those with a Japanese IP can submit them. My source of info... Gok.

I feel like the obsession with cartoon accuracy is giving us poorer quality figures at much greater prices, and I for one would gladly sacrifice perfect accuracy for a figure that was more affordable and could be handled more frequently and without needing to be extra delicate.

I feel it was needed for Ironhide & Ratchet (for obvious reasons) and Sunstreaker is better for it given the awkwardly long arms & lack of waist/groin on the G1 toy. But I feel Hound took it too far with tyres that fold up to conceal alongside FALSE wheels on his ankles and a need for every accessory to fold into his legs. Sure, it was very clever engineering, but not worth the extra price all that necessitated.

[GoktimusPrime]

Where's the overwhelming demand for cartoon accuracy coming from?

I feel like the obsession with cartoon accuracy is giving us poorer quality figures at much greater prices, and I for one would gladly sacrifice perfect accuracy for a figure that was more affordable and could be handled more frequently and without needing to be extra delicate.

Mate... you are preaching to the choir. I don't even like the term "cartoon accuracy," and prefer saying "show likeness," because the fact of the matter is - for most Transformers - the toys came first and therefore they are NOT inaccurate to the cartoon. The cartoon was inaccurate to the toys. I personally prefer toy accuracy, but I know that I'm in the minority and obviously TakaraTOMY are going to cater for what the majority want.


As you said, previous MPs had a balance, and this balance has been lost as the toys are ever increasingly shifting towards cartoon-likeness. But it is as fans have been demanding. And the main reason why I used to translate the Takara(TOMY) surveys (I used to translate the printed card surveys too before they went online) is to give Anglophone fans a chance to have their voices heard directly to Takara(TOMY). Alas, they've cut off our ability give direct explicit feedback. I wonder if it was to do with the fact that Hasbro was also doing MPs for their market at the time that the geoblock came in. <shrugs> <---this is pure speculation

My understanding is it's the Japanese fans. TakaraTomy still do their fansurveys, but geoblock them so only those with a Japanese IP can submit them. My source of info... Gok.

The online survey is here:
https://www.takaratomyfans.com/
I for one haven't been able to access it from outside Japan. I used to take screen shots and translate the online surveys here, but I haven't been able to do so since the geoblock came into place. The last time being three years ago which was when I was last in Japan. If anyone here is able to access the survey and you want something translated, by all means please post screen shots on the Takara online survey thread. I did call TakaraTOMY directly twice after the geoblock started asking them to consider removing the geoblock, but they've evidently elected not to do that.

[Dan]

I'm not an MP collector, but I am an MP review watcher, and from that perspective I'm not a fan of the cartoon accurate trend. The thing we sometimes overlook is that the G1 cartoon was cheap animation knocked out in a hurry, and it seems odd to me for an expensive deluxe toy (in the proper sense of the word) to emulate that. I'd rather they aim to emulate some of the better box art, which I think suits them more.

I'm particularly dismayed by those extra cartoon accurate re-decos that paint reflected light and shadow onto the toys, as if they don't already have that by virtue of being objects. Surely that means they would have to stand at one exact angle within a display relative to lighting.

[GoktimusPrime]

The thing we sometimes overlook is that the G1 cartoon was cheap animation knocked out in a hurry,

Toei's Kohara Shohei initially designed animation models, but these were simplified by Sunbow's Floro Dery as a deliberately stylistic choice.

[kurdt_the_goat]

The G1 cartoon can hardly be called consistent even within itself, let alone being consistent with other sources. I think everyone loved the Datsun, Lancia, and Sideswipe moulds because they gave us a wonderful balance of cartoon likeness, effective transformation, and realistic vehicle. It was a the best representation of everything that that character was - not a screen accurate replica that allows us to re-enact the cartoon.

I feel like the obsession with cartoon accuracy is giving us poorer quality figures at much greater prices, and I for one would gladly sacrifice perfect accuracy for a figure that was more affordable and could be handled more frequently and without needing to be extra delicate.

I certainly hope that the amount of returns and complaints about Hound breakages is a wake up call for them. No one wants delicate figures and breakages, and they could certainly do well to stop a little short of some of the things they attempt, in favour of greater structural integrity.

Thankfully mine has no issues. But reading threads on it, even the people with breakages still love the figure's design. It has an incredible transformation to a super clean robot mode mode with amazing articulation. It's a shame MPs are going up in price (which only makes any issues that much bigger of a deal), but a big part of that is the accessory bloat as much as parts count imo.

While they're certainly going for cartoon aesthetic, I do wonder just how different a 2012 Hound or Sunstreaker might have looked compared to what we got recently. Or how much different a new Sideswipe with skinnier chest would be to MP-12. I think Sunstreaker and Hound fit in with the others quite nicely. They don't forgo panel details or toy nods like say Ironhide did. I feel like he's a bit of an outlier because the van kind of afforded them greater choice for styling the legs and arms, than the bots who wear more of their vehicles. I don't think a modern Sideswipe would look as different to MP-12, as say MP-10 does to MP-44.

The cars I feel, have stuck pretty close to each other overall (especially vehicle-wise - I mean Sunstreaker and Sideswipe are nigh on identical) - it's when you look at some of the others that there is a more obvious difference in aesthetic. Personally I think an eventual Jazz will probably be very similar in aesthetic to what we got with Prowl. But something like Trailbreaker might look more in line with what we got with Ironhide. If they come right after each other, it might seem a little like "So, what's the direction of the line now!?".

I think the specifics of each character - their alt mode, their difficulty in transforming to something resembling the cartoon, and the toy's budget all play a part in the end result as much as any overall aim to be cartoon accurate. The earlier cars had lower budgets/less parts, and couldn't do as much to achieve cartoon accuracy. The Beast Wars MPs are very accurate, but a great degree of that is due to their shells affording freedom to cover pieces that can look like anything the designer wants, and their higher price. And like you say, because the models were so defined in the first place.

Then look at Arcee. They've taken much more artistic liberty compared to the cartoon than any of us expected I think. Is it just that they can do whatever they want with her body, since almost none of it is the car, and a designer has their own image in mind this time? Part of it is because they can't afford the space to store fake chests instead of using the real hood as her chest. Or does it signal a shift away from cartoon accuracy?

I don't think we can necessarily look to the last or any figure really, as some kind of definitive guide for how the next one will turn out. There's a lot of factors that go into what is and isn't possible and what the end result will be.

I wish they were cheaper of course, but Sunstreaker and Hound are so good, that I'm pleased Jazz hasn't come yet. He's going to be incredible when he does!
I think if given the choice, I'd rather have 202X Jazz than 2012 Jazz. With good QC please

[Deano85]

I wish they were cheaper of course, but Sunstreaker and Hound are so good, that I'm pleased Jazz hasn't come yet. He's going to be incredible when he does!
I think if given the choice, I'd rather have 202X Jazz than 2012 Jazz. With good QC please

I would love Jazz to be more like the datsuns that dont take too long to transform, compared to Sunstreaker and all the extra transformation steps.

[dirge]

I would love Jazz to be more like the datsuns that dont take too long to transform, compared to Sunstreaker and all the extra transformation steps.

I feel the same. Jazz doesn't need all the extra steps to "clean up" the shape of his robot mode. He probably only needs some extra jointing in the doors so you hve the "toy" option of visible doors and the "cartoon" option of concealed doors.

[kurdt_the_goat]

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think he'll need extra steps or parts to anywhere near the degree of Sunstreaker or Hound. But i'd guess they may try and do some clever integration for his speakers that may not have happened if it was earlier in the line, and maybe something else I haven't thought of too. The cartoon speakers won't fit nicely like the little ones on United Jazz. I was speaking more from my perspective that Sunstreaker and Hound are probably the best of the cars or at least the most impressive from a transformation point of view. I want them to continue to improve and amaze! But my point being that I think aesthetically he'll fit right in alongside the Datsuns will probably only be truer because his transformation needn't be overly complex. Either way hopefully we aren't waiting too long to find out

[DELTAprime]

I love cartoon accuracy. But frankly, Takara are compromising the figures in the pursuit of cartoon accuracy.

I'm not asking for figures to look 100% the same as the animation model.

WFC E Optimus Prime has a cartoon accurate deco and the silhouette says "Optimus Prime" and that's really what I want.

Does he look 100% accurate? No. Is he a better toy than MP44? Hell yes.