View Poll Results: WFC Kingdom Cartoon - worth watching?

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  • Best Transformers cartoon ever!

    0 0%
  • Good viewing, but not great.

    8 40.00%
  • Fairly average, maybe watch it once eventually.

    10 50.00%
  • Terrible, best to save your time and avoid it.

    2 10.00%
  • I'm not likely to see it

    0 0%
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Thread: Netflix Kingdom tv Show Review Spoilers

  1. #1
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    Default Netflix Kingdom tv Show Review Spoilers

    So.. spoilers ahead.

    G1 meet and talk to the beasts. There is time line convergence at the end. Autobot Ark tranfsorms. The characters of the beast are different in some regards, Tigertron is more war mongering than peaceful. Hard to adjust to some voice acting knowing what the beasts sounded like from the show. Dinobot is very black rapper American in voice but character is similar to the old BWs show. Tigertron felt more like dinobot in terms of voice. Scorponok is in it for one show then theres an army of them in another. No waspinator but think his character would not fit the style of show. I like what they did with Nemesis Prime. Many transformations not seen and are off screen. Beast Megatron seemed whimpy and taken with G1 Megs like a fornlorne fanatic. The voice didnt help much but I got use to it. The story was always surprising and I rate it as good if not better than the previous entries. I smirked at G1 Megs hating that beast Megs had his name. Theres room for a sequel. The only beasts in the show were O.Primal, ratrap, cheetor, tigertron, rhinox, airrazor, megs, dinobot, blackaracnia, scopronok. Some may not like the new sizes of the beasts in the show, for instance rhinox is bigger than most autobots. They are all some what evenly sized. Beast megs is bigger than G1 megs. If you enjoyed seige and earthrise, you will enjoy this.

  2. #2
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    I thought this was the weakest of all the WFC.

    -it just looked poor in that transformations were offscreen, some static backgrounds and it looked liked some effects had slowdown.

    -lack of character, before we got some story for most of the characters but here barely anything outside Optimus/Megatron. And just the characterisation one second tigatron advocates for peace then he is flipped.

    -disjointed skips forward. A couple in the Dinobot episode, the Decepticon shuttle, Optimus flying into the air after regaining power. It's just like what happened next?

    -Oh yeah remember Bumblebee and Alpha Trion for a second.

    -the voices for the Beast Wars cast, I think was just weak but it's been a common criticism for the rest of the series.
    Last edited by Gehirn; 30th July 2021 at 08:30 PM.

  3. #3
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    I thought it was O.K.
    Not bad. Not great. It was what I was expecting.

    The only thing that really annoyed me was the Beast Wars Megatron. He sounded like if Megatron was a teenager
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  4. #4
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    Okay I actually really enjoyed this instalment - I thought Earthrise was a bore, Siege was okay, but this was excellent.

    Finally wrapped up the series, made *some* of the earlier weird choices make a lot more sense (as much as it's kind of a cop out, the 'Unicron's grand design was suffering' angle worked ok for me), really enjoyed the beasts (now I guess I need to get myself a Primal and TRex Megs, after swearing off the beast characters), and enjoyed the teaser at the end.

    Actually think there was plenty of Transforming (much more than earlier seasons)... except Bumblebee!

    Also sad about the characters that did get toys but the CAD models weren't used (e.g. Arcee, Galavatron)

    I'd say Siege was a 5-6/10, Earthrise a 3-4/10, but this was a solid 8/10!

  5. #5
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    I actually really liked Kingdom. It had a compelling storyline/plot that kept me tearing through/binging the episodes in a single sitting. It's a shame it took two long slogs of Siege and Earthrise to build up to get to that point, but I'm glad the team got to give it their all for this last instalment. The Beast Wars cast really propelled it, far more than the boring old G1 cast in the same old vague and uninteresting situation that has been run into the ground by now and disappointed time and time again in new G1 incarnations.

    The voice acting of course is really off, and plain abhorrent on many characters, notably Beast Megatron, Ironhide, Optimus Prime and Unicron. It distracts a lot from the show, in a similar way to how the constant reuse of the same handful of models does throughout this whole trilogy. I wasn't bothered by a lot of the BW voices besides Megatron, as it seemed like they were at least giving it a good go. The characters aren't really much of "characters" though- for a lot of them, you couldn't name a single thing about their character that isn't their role, name, alt mode or how they look. Part of what makes shows like Beast Wars and even the G1 cartoon memorable are their rich characters. Even for a toy commercial, the old cartoon characters were written with their characteristics and quirks first, which made them shine through the campy storyline and not-so-hot animation and keep us here after so many years as toy collectors. You could say the same about the original techspecs, which give us so much in a couple sentences with no other supplementary media included, not even a picture. Having a good narrative is the core of a good piece of media, but it must be helped along by good characters with clear motivations.

    I really wish they would give a show/film to a competent team that knows what makes Transformers so compelling, and something more along the lines of MOTU Revelation or the various DC movies. Not everyone loves MOTU Revelation, but that show gets so much done in a single episode, that it seems like a similar job for Transformers would have covered about 3-4 WFC episodes in that same amount of time. Hasbro should know by now that the "grim/dark vague war setting on Cybertron and fighting for energon on a blank/empty Cybertron" schtick over and over again is not working. A mediocre piece of media with G1 designs slapped over the top for surface level nostalgia is not enough to please fans, we want something to chew on that isn't super patronising and overdone. Bumblebee (the film) was a nice film that did well with the smaller-scale heartwarming side, but a lot of fan love for that movie came unfortunately came from the very visible G1-esque designs that otherwise had little impact on the movie, and calling it a day. It's nice to have those things, but it doesn't seem to go much further than that, and that seems like a common pattern with modern Transformers stories.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bidoofdude View Post
    I really wish they would give a show/film to a competent team that knows what makes Transformers so compelling, and something more along the lines of MOTU Revelation or the various DC movies. Not everyone loves MOTU Revelation, but that show gets so much done in a single episode, that it seems like a similar job for Transformers would have covered about 3-4 WFC episodes in that same amount of time. Hasbro should know by now that the "grim/dark vague war setting on Cybertron and fighting for energon on a blank/empty Cybertron" schtick over and over again is not working. A mediocre piece of media with G1 designs slapped over the top for surface level nostalgia is not enough to please fans, we want something to chew on that isn't super patronising and overdone. Bumblebee (the film) was a nice film that did well with the smaller-scale heartwarming side, but a lot of fan love for that movie came unfortunately came from the very visible G1-esque designs that otherwise had little impact on the movie, and calling it a day. It's nice to have those things, but it doesn't seem to go much further than that, and that seems like a common pattern with modern Transformers stories.
    I agree with a lot of this, and would go as far as to say that using G1 characters and designs in this actively works against it, since so many of their other choices contradict or detract from the characters used. A lot of choices propelled by the toy line too - which I understand is Transformers heritage! - but just ends up being...weird. The voice actors themselves are actually pretty good, they're just voicing the wrong characters. It's whoever was in charge of casting that needs firing IMHO. I don't want slavish G1 accuracy - both cartoon and movieverse Ironhide voices are great, for example - but it needs to suit the character. WTF was that Beast Megatron meant to be. If this was an all new cast of characters, I'd probably enjoy it more.

    And using grimdark for Transformers is just misguided...I usually love grimdark, but this franchise is wacky! It's giant talking robots that turn into cars and tape players! It's SHOULD be a little wacky. That's why the IDW run was so good in places, it embraced that and had fun with it, and still managed to tell epic, sweeping and often very moving stories.

  7. #7
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    ***SPOILERS*** My WFC Kingdom review ***SPOILERS***
    (1) What I liked
    (2) What I disliked
    (3) Overall Thoughts

    1: THE GOOD
    • The best of the WFC Trilogy. It's not as dreary as Siege and Earthrise.

    • The most "toyetic" of the Trilogy. Something that I've always complimented about most of the character designs in this trilogy is the toy-accuracy. WFC has been the most toy-accurate TF media ever. Kingdom not only continues this (mostly), but the superior action also makes me want to play with and purchase the toys. And this is the primary purpose of all TF media; to sell toys. Having a highbrow form of literary art doesn't mean much if it doesn't make you want to play with and purchase the toys; just look at Beast Machines.

    • I liked the AllSpark forest and the way that it induced hallucinations as a defence mechanism. Some the hallucinations were more meaningful than others though; Starscream's was good (more on that later), but Sideswipe's was ... weird. He sees Earthrise Sunstreaker, but the audience doesn't! I guess Sunstreaker is Sir-Not-Appearing-in-this-Show.

    • The idea of Nemesis Prime being a corrupted version of Optimus Prime from the future/alternate reality is something that isn't often seen. It's different from the stock "Black Convoy" version of Nemesis Prime. This certainly isn't the first time we've seen something like this though. Armada Nemesis Prime (Dreamwave comics) was the first to be a corrupted Optimus Prime from an alternate reality, and TLK Nemesis Prime was Optimus Prime corrupted by Quintessa. But it was still cool to see this concept being revisited rather than just doing the "evil clone" thing yet again.

    • Fight scenes are visually spectacular. No more Benny Hill Show running around like that stupid Scorponok fight in Earthrise. Some stand out moments include the dogfight between Airazor vs. Laserbeak (I've always liked the dogfights in WFC; the jet fights in Siege were also awesome), Dinobot vs Megatrons and the moment where the Maximals all charge at Nemesis Prime. The team ups were also cool; Maximal-Autobot alliance vs Predacon-Decepticon axis; who hasn't wanted to see that? And the big team up with everyone against Galvatron & Nemesis Prime was epic.

    • Comic relief. This was something sorely missing from Siege and Earthrise; Kingdom has moments of humour to punctuate the tension. Not always, but it was there at times. And the show even poked fun at itself. Such as when the Maximals referred to Optimus Prime as "Nemesis," the Autobots' reaction was, "What, the Decepticon ship?" And when Airazor was name-dropping the Autobots, she just referred to Sideswipe as "the red one," a reference to how Siege and Earthrise have all those random Sideswipe repaints as background characters (e.g. Deep Cover etc.); as a future Cybertronian who only knows the Autobots through her study of history, she would find it hard to differentiate between all the bloody Sideswipe repaints! Yes, this show is "grimdark," but it is much lighter than the drab Siege and sleep-inducing Earthrise.

    • The Ark's robot mode looks freaking awesome! Suitably epic.

    • We do see the robot and alt modes of every new character introduced in this series. Something that was sorely lacking in Siege and Earthrise. Remember what WFC Bumblebee or Astrotrain look like in their alt modes? No you don't.

    • Starscream's character arc. This was a pleasant surprise as I wasn't expecting Kingdom to have any character development. Starscream starts off as being as dull as he was in Siege and Earthrise; nothing more than the same template as G1 cartoon Starscream. But then he undergoes two main phases of change; first was his hallucination in the AllSpark forest where he sees his own coronation and lives out his dream of being emper--, king (is this to justify why this show is called "Kingdom"?). But then after learning the truth about Unicron, he abandons his lifelong ambition for the sake of the greater good. He swallows his immense pride and comes to the Autobots seeking peace, and then stops Megatron from blowing up the Ark - begging both sides to stop fighting and to unite. Thus Starscream actually becomes the hero of the story.


    2: THE BAD
    • The voicing. I refuse to call it voice "acting." It continues to be just awful.

    • MacGuffin Fetch Quests. Fetch the Golden Disk, fetch the Matrix, fetch the AllSpark... the whole story hinges on a series of fetch quests for Cosmic MacGuffins.

    • Unearned moments. A lot of the moments in the show that were meant to be deep and heavy were unearned. Dinobot's death is a prime example of this. We see Dinobot sacrificing himself to fetch the Matrix MacGuffin before succumbing to his wounds... and the Maximals are all boo-hoo upset. But why? This is an enemy combatant that you don't even know. A more realistic reaction might have been, "Oh, I guess he wasn't such a bad guy after all. How unfortunate." But to mourn over an enemy that you never personally knew? That makes no sense. Obviously it's a call back to Code of Hero from Beast Wars, but BW earned that moment... Kingdom doesn't. Cross-media references are fine, but you shouldn't require the audience to have prior knowledge or emotional attachment to other media in order for the scene to make sense and strike an emotional chord. Beast Wars makes loads of references to G1 and G2, but even as someone who has never ever seen or read Transformers before, you can still watch BW and enjoy it. You don't need to know who the Swarm are in order to understand the Vok etc. But Dinobot's death and the Maximals' reaction to it entirely relies on the audience having prior knowledge of Beast Wars to even understand why it means anything... but even then it makes no sense in-universe as far as WFC is concerned.

    • The previous point is just one example of the problematic writing in WFC... as if these are a series of fan fics rather than something written by professional writers. It also leaves many things under-explained... what exactly is the Dead Universe? What happened to the story arc of Elita-1, Jetfire, Scrapface etc.? Yeah, we see her corpse on Cybertron... but what happened? What exactly are the Alpha Trion Protocols? What G1 Scorponok being the last of his kind or something? Did we sit through that boring Benny Hill chase for nothing?

    • Predacon Megatron SUCKS. He's basically a sycophantic lackey to G1 Megatron. His motto might as well be, "Notice me, Sempai. Notice me." And the terrible voice performer delivering that, "Yess!" line was like hearing fingernails running down a blackboard.

    • With the exception of Starscream, none of these characters have any personality. I agree with Hooks' comment that these are basically a "bunch of walking trademarks."

    • Most of the transformations happen off screen. Even the Ark transforms inside a cloud. Tigatron's screen model is also just a teal and white Cheetor with stripes. The original BW cartoon went to the effort of modifying Cheetor and Tigatron's screen models to look different (to the point where the MP toys are entirely different moulds).


    3: OVERALL
    WFC Kingdom is much like Bayformers. You can switch off your brain and enjoy the visuals, but the story doesn't make much sense. Yes, the story does introduce a lot of interesting concepts, and so did Bayformers. But neither developed those concepts terribly well. If you've already watched Siege and Earthrise, then yes, I do think that Kingdom is worth watching to finish off the story. If you have never watched WFC, then no, it is not worth sitting through Siege and Earthrise just to get to Kingdom. Kingdom is the best of the Trilogy, but I don't think the pay off of suffering through Siege and Earthrise is worth the reward. I would sooner recommend watching Animated; which has what I consider to be a terrible Season 1 and a Season 2 that swings between good and bad, to get what I regard as a really strong Season 3. I think that the reward of watching Animated S3 is worth the payoff of sitting through S1-2... but not WFC. So if you're the kind of person who hasn't even started watching WFC and you wouldn't even bother watching Animated in a pink fit, then avoid the War for Cybertron Trilogy like the plague. But if you're in for cent then you might as well stay in for a dollar.

    TLDR: Recommended only if you've already seen Siege and Earthrise.

  8. #8
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    My two cents

    • Better than Earthrise, episodes roll better (possibly due to not having to jump between multiple plots), pacing, action all improved upon.
    • Forget all criticism of Prime's voice, Beast Megatron is a doozy. Though 100% fitting to the sycophantic fanboy he is in this rendition of the character.
    • Arcee is the new Elita-1! Convinced she is the Autobot with the second most lines of dialogue (Wheeljack might beat her with his one-line updates on the Ark)
    • Speaking of, the fate of Elita's crew was very undercooked.
    • Blackarachnia's female focused carnal commentary was amusing yet unnecessary.
    • Really like Starscream's redemption
    • WHERE IS WASPINATOR? Understandable, he would have stolen the show.
    • I feel like the entire plot could have played fine without Galvatron or Nemesis Prime, but hey, gotta sell some toys! (even if a season late)
    • Kingdom is so disconnected from Siege and Earthrise it could have been released as a standalone
    • Poor Wheeljack and Rhinox spend six episodes trying to get the Ark to fly only to find out they've been failing because Teletraan didn't want them to.
    • The ending, as usual, a total anticlimax.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lint View Post
    Forget all criticism of Prime's voice, Beast Megatron is a doozy. Though 100% fitting to the sycophantic fanboy he is in this rendition of the character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lint View Post
    Poor Wheeljack and Rhinox spend six episodes trying to get the Ark to fly only to find out they've been failing because Teletraan didn't want them to.


    Other things...
    • Airazor flies like Iron Man with those thrusters on her feet and palms. When the AllSpark forest made those thrusters short out she plummets... uh, did she forget that she could transform into a freaking bird?

    • Optimus Primal uses Cog's gun. Did he forget that he has cannons built into his forearms and shoulders?

    • Some visual continuity errors: when Dinobot stabs Soundwave in the chest with his sword, it creates a hole in the chest door. When we see Soundwave later, he has no hole in his chest. Megatron rips the Matrix off his chest, breaking the straps that tied it to his chest. He didn't unstrap the Matrix, he tore it off. Later we see Megatron walking around with the Matrix reattached to his chest and the straps are appear completely undamaged. So sign of repair or anything... it's as if Megatron had never snapped them off.

    • I re-watched the first three episodes; Dinobot's death is even more unearned than I initially gave it discredit for. When the Maximals arrive on the scene, Optimus Prime had already placed the Matrix in his chest. The Maximals didn't know what Dinobot had just done... all they saw was a dying Dinobot. Even if they figured out that the light came from the Matrix (how?), they didn't know that it was Dinobot who retrieved it. Gah... this scene has gone from making little sense to making no sense!

    • Either the voice performers or voice director are apparently not native English speakers and don't seem to understand how to place emphasis and stress in spoken English. Optimus Primal tells Rattrap, "Maximise, Rattrap," but the voice places overphasises "Maximise;" the voice performer says "Maximise" as you would be saying if it were an activation code ("Maximise!"), but he's using it as a term of direct address. Buh? In another scene, Optimus Prime says, "Sound off," but he stresses "off," so instead of telling his comrades to call out, he's instead telling them to sound wrong! He's saying "off" as when you say things like, "This milk is off," or "Your karaoke sounds off" etc.

    • I know I praised WFC for being mostly toy accurate, but it seems that the CGI models for the beasts have dropped in that standard. I've heard that with Siege and Earthrise that the animators based their models off the CADs for the toys... this doesn't seem to be the case with the new characters in Kingdom. Case in point, Optimus Primal... head looks quite different from the toy, and also seems to lacking the same level of detail and expressiveness that the original BW cartoon had (considering that the original 'toon is a quarter century old now; damn!)



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    • Predacon Megatron SUCKS. He's basically a sycophantic lackey to G1 Megatron. His motto might as well be, "Notice me, Sempai. Notice me." And the terrible voice performer delivering that, "Yess!" line was like hearing fingernails running down a blackboard.
    While I do agree with your points about the poor writing overall, I can tell that there were a few moments like the "yessss" bit which were written into the script to reference G1 or BW, but the actor's voice delivery made it unnoticeable or just flat out terrible. I can tell that the writers are fans to some extent, but clearly the voice director isn't or he would have picked up on the references and told the actors to deliver the line a particular way. Some of the actors/actresses performances did really shine through though, like Blackarachnia's.

    My overall thoughts mirror much of what has been said already. I enjoyed Siege, didn't like Earthrise, but liked Kingdom the most. I felt each episode got better and better, especially episodes 5 and 6. Whilst the story isn't particularly great and at times hard to follow, I did really enjoy watching the fight scenes as well as the interaction between Blackarachnia and Starscream. It was also good seeing Nemesis Prime and Galvatron get used properly, as their appearances in Earthrise were a complete waste.

    I guess as Gok said if you switch off and treat it like a Bayformers film then it's entertaining. Don't expect anything deep from it though.
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