SD watches Victory

[SilverDragon]

Well, the first two episodes of it, anyway.

So I was at the library a week or so ago, and I found the Madman DVD of Transformers: Victory. Curious to see whether a claim that Star Saber was the most vapid Autobot (well, okay, Cybertron, for the nit-picky) leader ever was true, I borrowed it and watched the first two episodes.

There is a reason for why I've only seen two episodes-Victory is really average.
While there are some parts which stick out (the Dinoforce, for one), most of it is very much average in terms of quality.

Take, for example, the Space Defense Force. If it's made up of humans and Autobots (I know they're called Cybertrons and Destrons in Japan, I'm just using the terms I'm more familiar with), why are the humans (ignoring Jan, who seems to be on the way to becoming the new Wheelie) still just cannon fodder?

For that matter, most of the Autobots are also cannon fodder. Basically, the Decepticons do something bad, and the Autobots show up to get owned in a variety of ways. This serves to highlight how awesome Star Saber is, because he never loses.

Speaking of him, I think I should go into detail here. Star Saber is the Autobot leader in this series (Ginrai, from the previous series, shows up as well-I like the continuaty), and also "the greatest swordsman in the galaxy", to quote the back of the DVD box. To show this, the first episode has a bizarre bit set on a Wild West-type planet with Star Saber showing up and defeating two generic Decepticons, who must have gone to the Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy, judging by their accuracy with their guns. The sword is also his primary weapon, but instead of doing typically sword-type things with it, he shoots lasers out of it.

What. The. Hell.

I guess violence censorship must have extended to swords.

Anyway, Star Saber annoys me, because he's so darn perfect. He's less a character and more a deus ex machina, since all he basically does is order others around and beat the bad guys at the end. The only real bit of character development for him is the ending theme, which basically tells us that he didn't steal food, or wet the bed (I don't get that one either), but he was a kid once (not that this makes real sense since he's a robot).

Also, he can't lose. I like Optimus Primal (in BW, at least) and TFA Optimus Prime because they CAN lose, and they AREN'T the epitome of perfection-hence why they have a crew to make up for their imperfections. Star Saber basically makes the rest of the Autobots redundant, and makes me feel sorry for the Decepticons, who have no chance.

Also, the stock footage is used to an annoyingly large degree.

So...anyone else watched this, and should I go on?

[kup]

I thought it was pretty average in the first couple of episodes (the first one was pretty bad with the 'Wild West' presentation) but as I continued watching it, it became better and better and it grew on me a lot.

[lcz128]

This was one of my faves I became a huge star saber fan as a kid - and yeah - Star Saber is setup as this unbeatable guy at first, but it does get better I rewatched this recently after all these years - and yes it does hold up (I grew up watching the Headmasters, Masterforce and Victory as a kid - not the original G1 )

Love it
Stick with it - more development happens later

[GoktimusPrime]

The series does improve. The end fight is considered to be one of the best battles in Transformers history - Chris McFeeley ranks it as #3 behind the battle between Optimus Prime and Megatron in Transformers The Movie (#1) and the end fight in Armada (#2). The Dino Force are unfortunately quite goofy and used as comic relief (although they are not without admirable qualities - they are all intensely loyal to the Decepticon cause and to each other, unlike say the Breastmasters). The Breastmasters are portrayed as being the more serious villains of the series.

he sword is also his primary weapon, but instead of doing typically sword-type things with it, he shoots lasers out of it.

What. The. Hell.

I guess violence censorship must have extended to swords.

Remember that the sword is considered a more romantic weapon (across many cultures - it's the reason why Jedi and Sith only use light sabres in Star Wars instead of blasters) and in Japanese culture it is considered to be a more honourable weapon. After the Sengoku Period the Samurai rejected firearms as they considered guns to be a dishonourable weapon for cowards.

In Star Wars the Jedi and Sith consider blasters to be uncivilised weapons.

"Not as clumsy or random as a blaster; an elegant weapon for a more civilised age." - Obiwan Kenobi (A New Hope)
"So uncivilised!" - Obiwan Kenobi (Revenge of the Sith)

I remember when Baz Luhrmann's Romeo + Juliet came out a lot of people (including myself) thought the movie would suck because he chose to abandon the use of swords in favour of guns. To Luhrmann's credit I think he pulled it off quite well and I actually do enjoy that movie - though you'll notice that Tybalt does kill Mercutio with a sharp melee weapon, not a gun.

At the end of the day remember that this is the G1 cartoon - so of course there's gonna be a lot of corny and cliches in it. If you want better G1 canon, go read the Marvel Comics.

[kup]

I didn't like the Dinoforce through much of the series but by the end, they managed to turn that around so suddenly in one hit that it actually retroactively improved my perception of them and now like them a lot even in the earlier episodes in which I hated them!

[GoktimusPrime]

yeah, same here. I do like how Kakuryu goes around singing the ending theme song though... he's so adorable.

[SilverDragon]

Emboldened by your comments that Victory does not descend in terms of quality (unlike certain other series), I went and watched the third episode.

I have to say that I enjoyed it quite a lot. I initially thought that Jan would be really annoying and useless. While he isn't exactly all that useful, there's a good reason for that-namely that he's only a kid, and that he wouldn't be able to do much to the Decepticons other than stick to their feet like gum.

The whole 'Jan goes to school' plot was actually done better than I thought it would be. I found Jan's distracting everyone from their work by talking about the Autobots to be quite funny, especially if I imagined the teacher yelling "NO, I DON'T WANT YOU TO TELL ME ABOUT THE TRANSFORMERS!" (Jan and Rad should totally be friends).

Star Saber has improved. We get to see a more caring side to him in this episode, seeing as he's Jan's foster father. He doesn't just show up at the end and beat up the 'cons. Hopefully this continues.

Leozack is COOL. He's like Starscream only with the brains not to declare himself Decepticon leader every time Deathzaras trips over.

Yay, combiners! Road Caesar is notably lacking in the giant-hips area. Imagine the disappointed kids who got his component parts and then discovered that he didn't look nearly as cool in plastic as he did on TV.

The Pteranodon Dinoforce guy carrying the rest of the Dinoforce away is one of the most retarded things I've ever seen thanks to the absurdity of the way it was drawn. Incidentally, the Dinoforce were pretty cool in this episode, being all destructive and stuff. The Pteranodon guy

After seeing this episode, I wish that the American G1 episodes were more like this in terms of pacing, as well as plotting . I guess they were constrained by the need to advertise the toyline, the size of which meant that the writers had to make characters appear out of nowhere in response to their toy being released.

I shall carry on watching Victory!

(also, the eye catches, with the chibified versions of the main characters, are awesome)

[loophole]

Ive have just finished watching Victory myself found it first to be a little hard to watch but does get better, but i do reccomend watching masterforce aswell as you will probally appreciate Victory even more so

[Robzy]

In Star Wars the Jedi and Sith consider blasters to be uncivilised weapons.

"Not as clumsy or random as a blaster; an elegant weapon for a more civilised age." - Obiwan Kenobi (A New Hope)
"So uncivilised!" - Obiwan Kenobi (Revenge of the Sith)

Heehee... looks like it may not be all the Jedi & Sith who think this... just Obiwan Kenobi!

[GoktimusPrime]

I have to say that I enjoyed it quite a lot. I initially thought that Jan would be really annoying and useless. While he isn't exactly all that useful, there's a good reason for that-namely that he's only a kid, and that he wouldn't be able to do much to the Decepticons other than stick to their feet like gum.

The fact that he's Star Sabre's adoptive son gives a plausible reason for why he hangs around with the Autobots. They can't very well tell him to back to his real parents since they're dead! And the ep where the Decepticons attack the school also show the danger of placing Jan back into human society. So the Autobots are in a difficult predicament with Jan - both options present dangers to Jan with one option also presenting a danger to other humans.

Road Caesar is notably lacking in the giant-hips area. Imagine the disappointed kids who got his component parts and then discovered that he didn't look nearly as cool in plastic as he did on TV.

It's G1... people were used to it (besides, the toys were made first anyway). It wasn't until Beast Wars that we saw more toy-accurate show models.

The Pteranodon Dinoforce guy carrying the rest of the Dinoforce away is one of the most retarded things I've ever

Yokuryuu. The inner robot is the same mould as Wildfly.

Heehee... looks like it may not be all the Jedi & Sith who think this... just Obiwan Kenobi!

Not really... almost every Jedi and Sith exclusively use light sabres/melee weaponry and not blasters. Let's see...

+ Obi-Wan Kenobi; only uses light sabres. Was forced to use Grievous' gun once and tossed it away in disgust saying it was uncivilised.
+ Yoda; never used a blaster.
+ Mace Windu; never used a blaster.
+ Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader. When Han Solo fired on him he blocked the shots with his hand and used the Force to confiscate the gun.
+ Darth Maul; never used a blaster.
+ Darth Tyrannus (Count Dooku); never used a blaster.
+ Darth Sidious/Emperor Palpatine; never used a blaster. His light sabre was designed to look like a blaster to make people think that he had completely abandoned the ways of the Force (so people wouldn't suspect that he could be a Sith - as Sith, like Jedi, don't carry blasters).
+ Qui-Gon Jinn; never used a blaster.
+ Asajj Ventress; never used a blaster. Her lightsabres, constructed by Dooku, are also crafted to deceptively look like blasters but are really lightsabres.
+ Luke Skywalker; only used a blaster when he was an apprentice and still largely naive/ignorant about the ways of the Force - he messed up big time in Ep V. By time he considered himself a Jedi Knight in Ep VI he had abandoned using a blaster and exclusively fought with a lightsabre which he had constructed himself.
+ Leia Organa Solo; only used a blaster before her Jedi training. Diplomacy has always been her primary weapon.
+ Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus; never used a blaster.
+ Jaina Solo; never used a blaster.
+ Anakin Solo; never used a blaster.
+ Ben Skywalker; never used a blaster. He even found the long lost lightsabre of his grandfather Anakin Skywalker.
+ Kit Fisto, Aayla Secura, Plo Koon, Shaak Ti, Ahsoka Tani, Ki Adi Mundi, Yaddle, Bultar Swan, Koffi Arana, Quinlan Vos, Darth Nihilus, Darth Bane, Exar Kun, Darth Krayt et al.; never used blasters.

Cade Skywalker uses blasters and a lightsabre, but he long abandoned his Jedi training and became a bounty hunter/pirate.

The Jedi are essentially Samurai in space (the Sith are like ninja) and like post-Sengoku/Tokugawa Samurai they loathed the use of guns and much preferred the sword as it is a more personal weapon. When the bow and arrow was invented in Europe the Church actually protested against its use in battle, claiming that it was an impersonal weapon. A sword, being more personal, allowed a knight to look into the eyes of the enemy that they were about to kill, and potentially offer the knight a chance of sparing his foe and showing mercy. The bow and arrow, in the hands of good snipers, did not offer this compassionate option. Of course, this plea was duly ignored. By time firearms were invented the Church basically went "meh" - if they wouldn't listen about bows and arrows then they figured that people wouldn't listen to them about guns (in other words, the boat had already sailed).

Jedi and Sith costumes are traditionally similar to feudal Japanese garb, based on the Gi.




The word "Jedi" is also similar to the Japanese word "Jidai" which means 'period' (as in a historical period, e.g. "Meiji Jidai" = Meiji Period).