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Thread: The Soapbox VII: The Top 10 Transformers of 2008

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  1. #1
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    Quote Originally Posted by STL
    I definitely agree that by 1986 standards he was decent but in the year of 2008 it's hard for me to make the assessment that a re-issue of a figure as htf as it used to be could make the list.
    But assessing a G1 toy, even a reissue, by 2008 standards is looking at that toy out of context. That would be akin to:
    + Comparing a remastered version of Star Wars "A New Hope" with "Revenge of the Sith" and saying that the special effects in Episode IV are bad compared to 2005 standards.
    + Looking at a Samurai sword that was recently forged and saying that it's a terrible weapon compared to a modern day automatic assault rifle.
    + Looking at a reconstructed vintage sports car and saying that its performance and features are bad compared to modern day sports car.

    G1 reissues are basically reproductions of vintage/classic toys. They're never intended to be on par with contemporary toy engineering - the entire point of the toy is the old-school authenticity. If they made Sky Lynx comparable with Classics/Universe/Henkei, then it simply would no longer be a G1 Sky Lynx toy, but something entirely different, which is wrong when you're aiming to be produce a historically accurate reproduction.

    Again, it's a lot like participating in a Medieval and Renaissance event... you are required to dress, speak, eat etc. in period (with certain exceptions like modern hygiene ). I gotta tell ya, Medieval and Renaissance European food tastes like crap (if I never have to eat plain couscous again it'll be too soon (-_-)), and eating in a hall purely by candle light is almost like eating in the freakin' dark when you're used to light bulbs. I now know how to pour a drink in the dark. And most of these recreational societies choose to live like nobility - and even then it's pretty effed up... I shudder to think how most common folk would've lived (literally in their own filth). I used to be Herald... shouting at the top of my lungs to address an audience is no way near as effective as using a microphone! But the entire point (and fun) of participating in these events is to experience a piece of history. The more modern technology and practices we introduce the less authentic the experience becomes.


    Living like this was bloody uncomfortable and inconvenient, but at the same time a lot of fun from a historical perspective

    The same goes for reissues. People buy these toys hoping to experience history from their childhood. If you were to remake these toys with modern engineering, then you've lost the entire point and appeal of making reissues in the first place. Toywise Henkei Sunstreaker craps all over G1 Sunstreaker - but there's something Henkei/Universe Sunstreaker can never do... it can never be Generation 1!

    There are two entirely different levels of appreciation when it comes to old school and new toys and one needs to appreciate them in their appropriate context. Think of your favourite toy from 2008. That toy may be considered utter garbage in 5-10 years' time. Is that to say that the toy is inherently bad? Of course not... by 2008 standards you might say it's a darn good toy, but by 2018 standards it might be rubbish... but of course, the toy wasn't designed in 2018!

    Sky Lynx may have been reissued in 2008 but he was designed in the mid-1980s. The reissue, being faithful to the G1 design, remains relatively unchanged. The strength and appeal of a G1 reissue is its authenticity and historical accuracy.

    I consider Apex Armour Optimus Prime to be a poor reissue because it's historically inaccurate and inauthentic to the original Optimus Prime toy, which is a very different toy from Ginrai. Likewise I don't consider Hasbro's Soundwave reissue to be a good reissue either because it's just a repainted reissue Soundblaster. A lot of people seem to think that 25th Anniversary Optimus Prime is a poor reissue of G1 Prime because of the newtered smokestacks, ridiculously oversized missiles and cartoonish bright colours (particularly the pink cab). In other words, these toys are not considered to be bad reissues because they're poorly engineered or because their designs don't match contemporary standards, but because within the context of being G1 reproductions they not authentic.

    If people want a modern realisation of a G1 character, they'll buy Classics/Henkei/Universe. When they want an authentic reproduction of a G1 toy, they will look at reissues.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    Sky Lynx may have been reissued in 2008 but he was designed in the mid-1980s. The reissue, being faithful to the G1 design, remains relatively unchanged. The strength and appeal of a G1 reissue is its authenticity and historical accuracy.
    I never said it wasn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    But assessing a G1 toy, even a reissue, by 2008 standards is looking at that toy out of context. That would be akin to:
    + Comparing a remastered version of Star Wars "A New Hope" with "Revenge of the Sith" and saying that the special effects in Episode IV are bad compared to 2005 standards.
    Unfortunately, context doesn't always matter. It's important at times but others it can be utterly irrelevant. To a small segment of collectors, having G1 vintage toys is a very cool thing but as I've aluded to, the vintage collector is a dying breed. I think that everything realises that it will not be judged in context but by how people respond to it and that in all of its complexities is only fair. People do not sit down 20 years on and try to appreciate the context in which a said movie was made.

    They watch it and either enjoy it or not. And I think the same applies to toys. And often there are a number of reasons as why a person likes a toy. I felt in composing my list that G1 reissues could not make the cut b/c while they fulfilled in 2008 a necessary and desirable niche, it didn't have the balance of nostalgia, engineering and fan/fiction appeal that other toys did. So yes, it fulfilled a criteria but it didn't satisfy others in my assessment where I tried to be as unbiased as possible b/c as you can see there are plenty of toys on my personal list that did a lot for me but just couldn't make the cut when I looked at it from a range of other factors..

    Quote Originally Posted by Stompy View Post
    Woohoo! Lists!
    ...

    1. TFA Lockdown
    Lockdown is hands-down my favorite TF figure ever. Sure the alt mode can be a little plain in features but from such a small compact vehicle into an surprisingly unbelievable tall robot mode with nary a kibble or obviously visible vehicle mode parts. Then there's his alien like looks due to his spindly lanky stature and his creepy disjointed hands (which I still believe to be purposefully bent to add to his outlandish character and not a design error). Then we have that cobra like neck lined with spikes/studs that creep over to his back and a skull like face sculpt with some intimidating facial features. Let's not forget the hook weapon just to make him even more outlandishly freaky. I'd gladly buy any and all repaints of this mould.


    Phew. That was longer than I expected. Just got swept away with all my thoughts when I got started.
    .

    Great write up too, Stompy. While I'm very very surprised to see you pick Lockdown you've definitely helped me to appreciate the toy more b/c my original position was exactly the same as Gok's. I have too many QC issues with it to care. My legs always pop off no matter what I try and it has a tendency to flop down. But you've made some great points there about its uniqueness. A pleasure to read.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by STL
    Unfortunately, context doesn't always matter. It's important at times but others it can be utterly irrelevant. To a small segment of collectors, having G1 vintage toys is a very cool thing but as I've aluded to, the vintage collector is a dying breed.
    Which is why G1 reissues are made in limited production runs - far smaller than regular line Transformers. They're also marketed directly to older collectors (or what Takara refers to as "high end"* collectors) - hence why they're all "For Ages 15 and Up" and they can ignore child-safety laws, which is why they have small missiles with super-strong launchers that can break the sound barrier.

    Hasbro tries to market their toys at children as well as adults, and history has shown that Hasbro reissues flop -- remember how much TRU were slashing the prices of G1 reissues because they just shelf-warmed for so bloody long? They were just desperate to get rid of all that dead stock! Remember seeing G1 reissue Autobot cars reduced from $75 to $25?

    And what makes you think that the G1 collector market is shrinking? If anything I'd say it's growing - the fact that we now have a live-action Transformers movie based on G1 (with a sequel on the way) is proof of that. When Beast Machines was out a Transfan in Canberra once told me that they should make a live-action Transformer movie. I laughed in his face and told him that it was downright impossible as we G1 fans are far too small and insignificant a niche market. I still cannot believe that we have a live-action movie and that Transformers has become "retro-cool" so that people walking around wearing TF clothes or with TF logos on their cars are not even necessarily Transfans! We have clearly become a much larger market and one to be reckoned with. The fact that the Classics/Henkei/Universe line is primarily based on G1/G2 tributes is also testament to the current influence of G1 fans. Look at all the G1 homages we had in the Armada trilogy. There was nothing like that in Beast Wars, Beast Machines or Car Robot (RiD).

    Look at how our own community has grown. I attended a Transfan meet in Melbourne in 2001. There were three Transfans who attended that meet who were Melbournians - the rest of us were from Sydney, Adelaide and Tokyo. Now you guys have just multiplied phenomenally and having meets on a regular basis with turn out numbers that rival Sydney meets! This was unthinkable 8 years ago!

    2001 Melbourne Meet


    Sure, G1 fans are still a minority, but we are a growing and undeniably influential minority now.

    Quote Originally Posted by STL
    I think that everything realises that it will not be judged in context but by how people respond to it and that in all of its complexities is only fair. People do not sit down 20 years on and try to appreciate the context in which a said movie was made.
    Do you think that most people would watch "Seven Samurai" or "To Kill A Mockingbird" and criticise it for having appallingly bad sound and picture quality by current film standards?

    The original Star Wars trilogy's (1977-1983) effects are not as good as the prequel trilogy (1999-2005), yet most Star Wars fans I've met consider the original trilogy to be better than the prequel trilogy - despite the fact that you can see the strings attached to the starfighters. I have the original trilogy DVD box set where they released 2 versions of each movie - unmastered (where you can even see the strings attached to the models) and digitally remastered (where they've used CGI to correct and remake a lot of effects shots). The fact that they've given collectors the option to watch the movies unmastered means that a lot of fans would like to watch the movies without corrections - but it doesn't mean that they would pan out things like the orange vaseline line underneath Luke's landspeeder... they're appreciating that these special effects were groundbreakingly awesome by 1970s/80s standards.

    Quote Originally Posted by STL
    They watch it and either enjoy it or not. And I think the same applies to toys. And often there are a number of reasons as why a person likes a toy. I felt in composing my list that G1 reissues could not make the cut b/c while they fulfilled in 2008 a necessary and desirable niche, it didn't have the balance of nostalgia, engineering and fan/fiction appeal that other toys did.
    + Nostalgia appeal = absolutely there (you can't beat a G1 mould for nostalgia)
    + Engineering appeal = again, it's there so long as you take it in context. It's like appreciating the architectural engineering of say and ancient temple, castle, cathedral, palace etc. - in the context of its time these are impressive constructions.
    + Fan/fiction appeal = G1 absolutely has appeal to fans, especially if you're looking at the hardcore fandom. I'd say the majority of fans would cite G1 as their favourite TF canon. We'll have a better idea of this after we see the results of Paulbot's OzFormers TF awards. I'll be surprised if something else got voted as the most popular over G1.
    + Niche market = yes, G1 is aimed at a niche market. That doesn't mean it's bad. Transformers Animated is aimed at a niche market too - kids. Sure, it's a much bigger niche than G1, but it's there.

    Quote Originally Posted by STL
    So yes, it fulfilled a criteria but it didn't satisfy others in my assessment where I tried to be as unbiased as possible b/c as you can see there are plenty of toys on my personal list that did a lot for me but just couldn't make the cut when I looked at it from a range of other factors.
    Fair enough, but for me I found Encore Sky Lynx to be my most satisfying acquisition for 2008. I assess it under different criteria from say Animated and Universe/Henkei - because I think it's unreasonable to assess them all under the same criteria.

    --------------
    *Takara(TOMY)'s high-end TF lines include:
    + Reissues
    + Binaltech & Binaltech Asterisk
    + KISS Players
    + Masterpiece
    + Music Label
    ...all these lines are specifically labelled as 対象年齢15才以上 ("For Ages 15 and Up") and are not intended for children, and in the case of KISS Players, contains fictional content not suitable for children.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post

    Sure, G1 fans are still a minority, but we are a growing and undeniably influential minority now.
    You've missed my point here. I'm talking about the vintage collector disappearing. I think its a shrinking part of the fanbase for the truly faithful and hardcore. I have a number of reasons for this but that's an issue I have lined up for the Soapbox at some point. As you've said, G1, the cartoo specifically, is the primary access for TFs and while I think that's strong, the vintage collector won't have the same strength.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    Fair enough, but for me I found Encore Sky Lynx to be my most satisfying acquisition for 2008. I assess it under different criteria from say Animated and Universe/Henkei - because I think it's unreasonable to assess them all under the same criteria.
    Would u believe I'm actually seeking an extra (3rd) Sky Lynx so he can be my Classics version? Lame but I do like the mold a lot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by STL View Post
    Would u believe I'm actually seeking an extra (3rd) Sky Lynx so he can be my Classics version? Lame but I do like the mold a lot.
    And a fourth for repainting as Fire Guts Sky Lynx? C'mon someone has to do it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulbot View Post
    And a fourth for repainting as Fire Guts Sky Lynx? C'mon someone has to do it
    You do the supplyin', I do the painting.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by STL
    I'm talking about the vintage collector disappearing. I think its a shrinking part of the fanbase for the truly faithful and hardcore.
    I suppose it's inevitable that hardcore G1 collectors would shrink since G1 ended in 1993... it's only a matter of time before those of us who grew up with G1 end up completing our G1 collections.

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