Will G1 ever be "dethroned"?

[blackie]

i reckon Disneyformers will, as soon as there is a Jonas Brothers and Miley Cyrus crossover

BREAD
your a visionary man
you should be in charge of hasbro, imagine all the money youd make them :P

[GoktimusPrime]

The only way G1 would be dethroned would be if it vanished completely one day-all the toys, cartoons, comics, everything-and everyone somehow forgot it's existence. This is incredibly unlikely (unless some alien comes along and decides to do just that since it's a spiteful bastard), to say the least.

1995-1996.

The other 'vehicle' modes in Transmetals are mostly 'in between modes' still largely ruled by their beast modes - eg Rattrap looks like a rat on wheels. There were a few exceptions in which the 'secondary' alt mode was more elaborate with its own unique look aside from the present beast mode but they are very few.

Optimal Optimus' vehicle modes were more than just intermediate modes. Also, the Beast Wars II Predacons were predominantly vehicular, albeit primarily repaints of G2 (including unreleased prototypes like Autolauncher and Autojetter) and Machine Wars moulds.

G1 had beast modes. If we say that they do not then we better stop classifying Rampage's crab mode and Depth Charge's manta ray mode as beast modes.

A lot of Japanese fans felt this way, which many people attribute as being the main reason behind Beast Wars Metals' lack of popularity in Japan despite their popularity in Hasbro markets. Beast Wars Neo featured what Japanese fans preferred - more realistic looking beast modes.

[kup]

1995-1996.


Optimal Optimus' vehicle modes were more than just intermediate modes. Also, the Beast Wars II Predacons were predominantly vehicular, albeit primarily repaints of G2 (including unreleased prototypes like Autolauncher and Autojetter) and Machine Wars moulds.


A lot of Japanese fans felt this way, which many people attribute as being the main reason behind Beast Wars Metals' lack of popularity in Japan despite their popularity in Hasbro markets. Beast Wars Neo featured what Japanese fans preferred - more realistic looking beast modes.

Yeah I know the Japanese felt that way but that doesn't make the robotic 'beast' modes not beast modes. Otherwise the whole Transmetal line will not qualify as beasts and that will be kind of weird and less accurate as what else can we call them? Animalistic robots?

Also let's remember that in the west, there was no Beast Wars II nor Neo so they only had Beast mode characters to choose from.

[Paulbot]

This thread started out of reaction to the favourite Toy series in the Awards. So let me share some more details.

If you take in to account that Masterpiece, Alternators and Classics lines are all modern versions of G1, than toys of G1 characters actually got 75% of the vote.

Second was Animated with 10%
Followed by Beast Wars with 6%
And in last place: Armada/Superlink, Cybertron/Galaxy Force, and Movie all had 1% of the vote.

All of these other series have G1 references too, and I can't imagine how big a reboot would be needed to get rid of them. The Maximal / Predacon era was a bit status quo upset but the characters had familiar names and soon enough the cartoon was throwing in appearances by G1 characters.

I think Hereticpoo's comment earlier was very true: G1 lays the framework for all that has followed.

[STL]

Hehehehe, Gok, you beat me to it. Jaydisc's post made me think and put it down as a discussion topic later for one of my Soapboxes but you've beaten me to the punch so I'll lay my thoughts out here.

i reckon Disneyformers will, as soon as there is a Jonas Brothers and Miley Cyrus crossover

GOLD!



I think this discussion isn't well defined.

What do we mean by G1? The cartoon? The toys? A concept? A combination of all of the above?

G1 as a toyline will be succeeded. The vintage collector dies and vintage collecting rests more and more on nostalgia. Sometimes the engineering and uniqueness carries forth like with the combiners but 90% of time it is nostaliga driven. That dries up as has been said with new generations and why settle on old fragile toys when you can have sparkly new sleek and articulated toys?

G1 as a cartoon. This is invariably contentious. G1 was a mixed bag. It had moments of brilliance but then it has moments that are quite cringeworthy. Watching it requires a suspension of belief and that may become harder as newer fans will be grow up on the movie or more recently cartoons. There will be in all eventuality a better cartoon.

G1 as a concept. This is harder to define but at some point we've got to see that G1 is no longer a toyline or a cartoon. It is far more than that. It has transformed, pun unintended, into the root of all transformers. Anything that has come since and will ever come will have its root and relevance in G1. And there's a certain inevitability to that. G1 will and cannot be proceeded b/c Prime will always be a truck. Megatron will always be his arch nemesis. Starscream will forever be the schemer. Bumblebee is the young punk that the audience is supposed to identify with. What you build around that will always be at the discretion of the writers but those concepts are intrinsic to the Transformers franchise.

Secondly it is in Hasbro's interests to build off the past to establish brand. It can only be done over generations and generations with the same characters and conflicts. BB will always be a sleek yellow car. Ratchet will be a medic. Ironhide a toughnut. Prime a truck. Megatron a vehicle of destruction. Starscream a jet. By doing this, Hasbro and Takara establish a brand with longevity - a brand that will outlast us and even those in charge right now. G1 is a very large part of that.

Beast Wars may have been an excellent cartoon, probably the best, but as a toyline it does not offer the diversity that you got in G1. It doesn't carry that nostalgia for this present generation and nor does it seem to be a large part of Hasbro's development of the franchise. For that reason, as loved as it may be by a niche, it at most can only ever be a G1 supplement. It has no legs.

G1 cannot be dethroned as a "concept". Perhaps I've used the wrong term but in its entirety G1 represents the core of all Transformers. Parts may be added to it that supplement it but it will never be superceded.

That to me is a bit sad as I'd like to see something new in Transformers, an all new direction but the business of toys and developing a brand require differently. G1 is and will always be a constant in Transformers in one form or another.

[Paulbot]

It doesn't carry that nostalgia for this present generation and nor does it seem to be a large part of Hasbro's development of the franchise.

As I said earlier I think there are a few members here because they watched Beast Wars on The Big Breakfast at the same age I watched the original cartoon on The Early Bird Show. If you were five when you watched Beast Wars you'd be 15/6 now. I can see those fans coming to TF online fandom at the same age a majority of members of this board have.

[STL]

As I said earlier I think there are a few members here because they watched Beast Wars on The Big Breakfast at the same age I watched the original cartoon on The Early Bird Show. If you were five when you watched Beast Wars you'd be 15/6 now. I can see those fans coming to TF online fandom at the same age a majority of members of this board have.

Let's dig this thread up in 5 years. That'd be a virtual time capsule.

[TheDirtyDigger]

Watching it requires a suspension of belief and that may become harder as newer fans will be grow up on the movie or more recently cartoons.

It's 'suspension of disbelief' mate. Don't worry, everyone gets this wrong.

As I said earlier I think there are a few members here because they watched Beast Wars on The Big Breakfast at the same age I watched the original cartoon on The Early Bird Show. If you were five when you watched Beast Wars you'd be 15/6 now. I can see those fans coming to TF online fandom at the same age a majority of members of this board have.

Although we don't have the hard statistics in front of us I'm sure that G1 Cartoon was far more popular than Beast Wars in terms of interest, licensed products, media, numbers etc etc.

G1 wont be dethroned until something like....

a new kick ass CGI version of G1, Final Fantasy movie style, M rated, with kick ass writing by novelists and produced by Jerry Bruckheimer and Jerry Seinfeld.

The new toys from said new G1 would have to be perfectly detailed and scaled, cost no more than $40 for ANY figure size and be painted by the Gamesworkshop 'Eavy Metal Team.

....comes along.

[jaydisc]

To me, G1 is like racism. The older and more stubborn you are, the more likely you are to practice it, and it'll take generations to breed out.

[GoktimusPrime]

Yeah I know the Japanese felt that way but that doesn't make the robotic 'beast' modes not beast modes.

You're right, but I initially said "true" beast modes. Robotic and cybernetic beast modes aren't "true" realistic beast modes.

At the OzFormers 2003 convention when we had the Beast Wars toy diorama on display, Jhiaxus and I saw some youngin's come up to the diorama and talk about Beast Wars with the same nostalgia that fans our age would talk about G1. Jhiaxus turned to me and said, "You know we're getting old when we're hearing these guys talk about Beast Wars in a nostalgic way!" - and it was so true...

Now I often drop TF quotes when I'm talking IRL and I made a Beast Wars reference in the middle of a Year 10 class last year and one boy immediately recognised it as Beast Wars, and started talking about Beast Wars with a tone of fond nostalgia in his voice! Now considering that I was in uni when BW came out... that made me feel thoroughly ancient!

I wouldn't go as far as to say that BW dethroned G1, but it's the closest we've ever seen to a dethroning of G1 thus far IMO.