Transformers questions by newbies, and not-so-newbies

[SharkyMcShark]

Because you seem to be taking the AHM and Drift bashing very personally. Shane happens to take criticism of his work not so well and from what I hear, in a very similar manner as your previous post.

Heroic Decepticon has it spot on - It is not Drift the character people have a problem with but rather the way he was introduced into the franchise. IDW and McCarthy fell the need to shove him in the reader's faces as the coolest and most bad ass character ever at every chance they got hence the comparisons to Poochy the dog from the Simpsons which I am afraid its spot on. He even appeared in the Children's Robot Heroes story book!

He also adds nothing to the story rather than 'OMG look at how bad ass Drift is'.

Which I said in my original post.



To be honest this isn't just an AHM or Drift thing, I think as a fan base (I refer to the ones on forums, not more casual fans) we're generally far too insular (which is why I don't really like the idea of the G1 sanctuary forum thingo).

When new things come out they inevitably get compared to G1, and fair enough that's where this crazy ride all started. But then (as we've seen with the movies) that becomes arguments deriding the new material along the line of 'well G1 Optimus wouldn't have *insert whatever here*', 'In G1 Starscream had x attribute that Animated Starscream doesn't', and so on and so forth. Alternately look at the outcry when Beast Wars started (ironically it turned out to be regarded as generally the best Transformers TV series).

I generally am quite keen on new things being added to the Transformers franchise/experience. While I'm not advocating change just for the sake of change itself I'm more keen on something new that didn't go down so well (for example Beast Machines, or DonFigs new G1 artwork in the Ongoing, or McCarthy's hamfisted attempts at introducing a new character) than rehashing pre existing stuff in slightly new ways.

I suppose that really manifests itself as me being more eager to embrace new stuff. I'm not a G1 hater as it were but I'm not so attached to it that everything must related back to it, or every grievance I may have with whatever Transformers issue can be resolved by saying well if they stuck closer to G1 then everything would have been better.

[kup]

Over the years the fandom has actually been welcoming of new characters. Beast Wars and Animated are big examples.

Fans have issues when the new character happens to be offensive to the audience in some form such as Wheelie (unnecessary 'kid appeal' character) or Drift (Forced 'Bad Ass' Gary Stu) both which contribution to the present story or franchise is negligible but are nevertheless given extensive screen/panel time for no justifiable reason other than to promote a self serving or misguided agenda.

[SharkyMcShark]

Over the years the fandom has actually been welcoming of new characters. Beast Wars and Animated are big examples.

I'd dispute that heavily. Surely you remember the whole Trukk not Munky debacle? It's looked back on as a cracking TV show and top notch toyline (GPS issues aside) now, but there was an outcry at the time.

Fans have issues when the new character happens to be offensive to the audience in some form such as Wheelie (kid character) or Drift (Forced 'Bad Ass' Gary Stu) both which contribution to the present story or franchise is negligible but are nevertheless given extensive screen/panel time for no justifiable reason other than to promote an self serving or misguided agenda.

I'm not trying to argue that it wasn't done poorly (which again I said like two pages ago when this first started). From a literary standpoint it was quite nonsensical. I take issue with statements to the effect that something that already exists could have filled the gap that his character did because I don't like the idea that writers into the future of any Transformers comic run should stick to the finite amount of things that are already in existence and firmly defined (which to be clear is not what I'm saying that you're arguing). My defence of Drift really stems mostly from a points for trying perspective if I'm being honest. I'm not trying to claim that he's not hackneyed or turned into somewhat of an ego trip for McCarthy, but I appreciate it insomuch as it was a step in a different direction.

As an example of something new that was generally considered quite good, look at the new recruits for LSotW. Pyro's bio (his only previous characterisation) had him as a big damn hero, whereas in LSotW he was slightly inept at combat and had a rather creepy Optimus Prime fixation. Things that come off well like that (and the characterisation of the other recruits and Overlord in LSotW) spawned from taking something in a new direction more than make up for things that didn't come off so well.

[kup]

I'd dispute that heavily. Surely you remember the whole Trukk not Munky debacle? It's looked back on as a cracking TV show and top notch toyline (GPS issues aside) now, but there was an outcry at the time.

The outcry was by a loud minority with one or two prominent members of the fan community back then who kicked up a stink. As I remember, Beast Wars had a pretty big positive response as a whole with far more people liking it than hated it. The people hating it was mainly because they couldn't get over the 'Beast' concept and some didn't even bother to watch a single episode - It wasn't really about accepting new characters but the concept itself they couldn't handle (despite already existing in G1 ).

Dinobot, a 'new' character introduced in BW is now running for the TF Hall of Fame so that has some significance.

Drift on the other hand is pretty much widely seen as an object of ridicule and aside from his new toy, he seems to have been left aside when McCarthy stopped writing the main series.

I'm not trying to argue that it wasn't done poorly (which again I said like two pages ago when this first started). From a literary standpoint it was quite nonsensical. I take issue with statements to the effect that something that already exists could have filled the gap that his character did because I don't like the idea that writers into the future of any Transformers comic run should stick to the finite amount of things that are already in existence and firmly defined (which to be clear is not what I'm saying that you're arguing). My defence of Drift really stems mostly from a points for trying perspective if I'm being honest. I'm not trying to claim that he's not hackneyed or turned into somewhat of an ego trip for McCarthy, but I appreciate it insomuch as it was a step in a different direction.

As an example of something new that was generally considered quite good, look at the new recruits for LSotW. Pyro's bio (his only previous characterisation) had him as a big damn hero, whereas in LSotW he was slightly inept at combat and had a rather creepy Optimus Prime fixation. Things that come off well like that (and the characterisation of the other recruits and Overlord in LSotW) spawned from taking something in a new direction more than make up for things that didn't come off so well.

But that is exactly what Sky Shadow's point is. The Euro G1 characters were hugely underused with only a toy bio and a one page comic for background. Just like them there are dozens of other under used characters in G1 which could easily fit in such roles and bring something 'fresh' to the table without having to invent a whole new Transformer character.

Nick Roche could of of just had the new Wreckers be a bunch of made up characters (generibots) but instead he took the effort to pick toys that previously had very little characterization associated with them and developed them into characters that fans will now remember for a long time.

Although change can be positive, it can also be negative depending on the method and result. Drift was the wrong way to go from the start and I didn't find anything new or refreshing about him on the contrary.

The sad thing is, that if Drift had been handled correctly, he could of been kind of cool like the next Dinobot or Bludgeon but instead they made him into Poochie the dog.

[SharkyMcShark]

I feel like you think I'm arguing that Drift is the best thing ever

[kup]

I feel like you think I'm arguing that Drift is the best thing ever

No. I am mostly arguing your perception that 'any change is good' even if its a poorly thought out and self serving one (to the author) as Drift.

[SharkyMcShark]

No. I am mostly arguing your perception that 'any change is good' even if its a poorly thought out and self serving one (to the author) as Drift.

'Any change is good' is hardly what I'm arguing.

I'm saying that personally I'm quite open for change and that I try to see the good side of it, even if the good side of it turns out to be 'points for trying + got a reasonably good toy'.

Which is distinct in my opinion from any change must inherently be good.

[kup]

'Any change is good' is hardly what I'm arguing.

I'm saying that personally I'm quite open for change and that I try to see the good side of it, even if the good side of it turns out to be 'points for trying + got a reasonably good toy'.

Which is distinct in my opinion from any change must inherently be good.

Then that's good and from what I have seen, most of us are the same here when it comes to being open to change. We do have individual tastes but we are open when something new appears which we find appealing. Even if we have reservations, we do give the new show/comic series a go and adjust or cement the opinion accordingly.

Drift ended up with an excellent toy, no doubt about that so Kudos to the Takara Tomy designer but I can't give McCarthy points for trying when his ambitions were more self serving than progressive.

[1orion2many]

Don't worry Sharky, I like drift. I have a dislike for Animated and Bayverse but believe they are still for the greater good of us collectors to keep the line moving in some sort of direction. Our first decent (Yes Decent) new character in a while and people bag the hell out of it. I don't believe I could do a better job of creating a new Character can anyone else? Was that the sound of silence, highly unlikely I'm sure someone here has something to say and off you go.

[heroic_decepticon]

He even appeared in the Children's Robot Heroes story book!

oh yeah, and that. Was so unimpressed I must have shut that out of my memory.

But that is exactly what Sky Shadow's point is. The Euro G1 characters were hugely underused with only a toy bio and a one page comic for background. Just like them there are dozens of other under used characters in G1 which could easily fit in such roles and bring something 'fresh' to the table without having to invent a whole new Transformer character.

Nick Roche could of of just had the new Wreckers be a bunch of made up characters (generibots) but instead he took the effort to pick toys that previously had very little characterization associated with them and developed them into characters that fans will now remember for a long time.

Exactly. There are so many, literally hundreds of unused characters, why create a cliché new character instead of using them.

Then that's good and from what I have seen, most of us are the same here when it comes to being open to change. We do have individual tastes but we are open when something new appears which we find appealing. Even if we have reservations, we do give the new show/comic series a go and adjust or cement the opinion accordingly.

I agree with that. Many fans thought the Infiltration was terrible. I and no doubt many others still gave it a shot and if you ask me, infiltration was leagues better than the first half of AHM.