The Parenting Thread

[TaZZerath]

I'm trying to avoid 'small screen time' for my 2 1/2 yo son as much as I can, but his grandma (on my partners side) is making things difficult. She plays games on her phone and then just gives it to any of her grandkids if they get rowdy (my son isn't but my partners brothers kids, 3 of them, are all atrocious because parenting isn't a word in their household). I've already expressed my concerns to her that he shouldn't be doing such stuff at his age (and the fact that he already knows how to tap, zoom, 'pinch', etc is disturbing enough) but as she babysits him most of the time, there's little I can do when I'm not around...

Fortunately with where we live he gets balance in outdoor activities. I just don't want him to be like me and 'screen bound' for the early part of his life. He's already potentially got bad genetics with his eyes (I wear glasses) and I wanna try and avoid antisocial behaviour as well.

[GoktimusPrime]

So many issues I see with parenting come from parents wanting a quick-fix solution, and that can be either with parents just caving to their kids requests to make them shut up, or parents getting all angry and shouty just to make them shut up. They're two sides of the same coin - want solution now - just shut up! I'm sure that this comes to news as nobody here, but behaviour management (either for my own child or other people's children (my students)) comes down to 3 key factors:
* Be firm
* Be fair
* Be consistent

This is why the actors in that WWYD video are failing as parents because they're failing to observe all 3 basic principles of parenting. Simply asking the boy to put his tablet away instead of telling him to do so is soft, not firm. Yanking the tablet away from him without giving any warning or opportunity to do it himself is unfair. And obviously they're not being consistent with their expectations... children will use devices at the table because they've been allowed to do so before. They've gotten away with it before.

Grandparents can be tricky, but I think the best thing you can do is ensure that you and your wife are being as firm, fair and consistent as possible with your child at home. You will find that that will have a greater effect than grandparents anyway. Worst case scenario, your son will only be indulged with greater screen time at his grandparents' place but nowhere else. Children will modify their behaviour in different situations and for different adults, but ultimately it comes from the parents. And especially during the Terrible Twos... man do I not miss this period! But seriously, so long as you dig your heels in deep and maintain the core principles of parenting, then things will get a lot better by Age 3.

My nephew is now 3½ and he already started entering the Terrible Twos when he was 1½ - and yeah, part of that was due to grandparents badly spoiling him. But his parents dug their heels in after his 2nd birthday and now he's so different. When he was 2 he was a real handful. He'd run into oncoming traffic if you didn't watch him, and his mum and dad were constantly chasing him like in an episode of Benny Hill. But he's changed so much now - he was playing with my daughter on the weekend and they were playing with Nerf guns. I told him that he could shoot objects but never shoot people. For the most part he was good with this rule, but then he went and shot someone else. Now it didn't hurt, but he broke the rule so I confiscated the gun from him. I was expecting him to have a meltdown, but he didn't! He put himself into a naughty corner! I walked away from him and started counting down to 3 minutes of isolation (1 minute for each year of his life), but after 1.5 minutes he walked over to me and apologised. So I did the follow up talk -- crouched down to his eye level and asked him what he had done blah blah blah, then kisses and cuddles and praised him for owning up to his behaviour. And yeah, our daughter was a terror at 2, but we dug our heels in and behaviour-wise things have been pretty smooth since age 3. Seriously, my current behaviour target for her atm is that she still chews loudly... but this made me realise that if loud chewing at the table is my biggest behavioural concern for my child, then I'm not doing so badly.

One thing that interested me about gamblor916's experience with watching Bumblebee vs my third viewing was that in both cases our cinemas were full of school kids on holiday care. So they were away from their parents. But gamblor916 mentioned that the kids in his cinema were well behaved, whereas the kids in my cinema (and Tha Phantom was with me and can vouch for this) were just excremental. But this just goes to show that the kids in gamblor916's cinemas have been demonstrably better parented than those in my cinema. Because a well parented child can be trusted to behave themselves even when their parents aren't around. If a child only behaves themselves when a parent has to be there to threaten them, then the child isn't really a well behaved child. They're a rotten child who is just waiting for an opportunity to misbehave, and that opportunity may be when mum and dad aren't around. And of course, you have super bad kids who will outright misbehave in front of their parents.

Note: I'm not talking about occasional misbehaving. Kids and kids and will sometimes make mistakes. I'm talking about routine or regular misbehaviours. My daughter hasn't yet attempted to use her tablet at the table, but she's only had it for a few weeks. But if she becomes the kind of kid who can't put her tablet down then I need to reevaluate my parenting practices!

[Bladestorm]

Use of digital devices when out/at dinner is always an interesting topic and one my husband and I have juggled with over many years.

We don't allow digital devices at the dining table at home as it's family time.
We do allow our children to take digital devices to a restaurant depending on the situation but there are rules around it.
We don't allow our children to use their devices while the meal is being served/eaten when out and often not beforehand either.
They may be allowed to use the device (note I use the word may as it is not always a given) once they have finished their meal IF the situation is appropriate.
We do often allow them to use the device after they've eaten if it is just the 4 of us at a restaurant so that my husband and I can talk while we finish our meal without the kids constantly interrupting or nagging to leave as meals are one of the few times my husband and I get to have a real chat to each other outside all the other commitments we have going on around us.
If out with friends and other children do not have devices our kids are normally not allowed their devices either (with the odd exception of playing together on the Nintendo Switch when appropriate as it allows multiple players/controllers if the other parents are in agreement if the kids ask). We do prefer our kids to socialise and chat or play, although my son can be paranoid about taking his transformers out with him for fear of loosing them from time to time.
If out with friends whose children are using digital devices we normally allow our kids to use theirs but with the prior restrictions in place in terms of eating meals. We try to encourage some socialisation from our kids with friends children but often it is futile when the other kids are too engrossed in their own devices.

In Hong Kong we constantly fought the idea of the kids having digital devices but it was a lost battle (we did resist until the kids were older) as all the kids and parents we associated with used their devices ALL the time when we would be out and our children would be left out, feel out of place, or teased.
I even got told by a group of mums there I was far too strict because I wouldn't let my son have his ipad while eating. Their kids eyes did not leave their ipads EVERY time we had dinner with them. In one case the son would be fed (!!) by the parent while he watched youtube or played a game which I found utterly outrageous! I find the idea of a child playing a game or watching videos while eating with friends and/or family incredibly rude (regardless of the antisocial behavior) so we never allowed it.

We have also been strict on social media access. Our children aren't allowed social media until they turn 13 and under strict conditions and responsibility. Almost all of their HK friends have had social media accounts since the age of 7/8 so my kids got teased for that but having seen what some of my daughters HK friends have posted on Instagram I am glad we waited as she is far more conscious about how she interacts online. Of course, social media and kids is a whole other topic...

Digital devices have their usefulness. On long haul flights and in airports they are a godsend. Used with limitations and with understanding and supervision they can be fabulous tools for learning and imagination.
They don't replace parenting though and personally I believe in being hands on with understanding what our kids are doing and watching with their devices.
We believe using the devices is a privilege. We also use digital time as a reward which can be a strong motivator.

As for movies, we have been a bit horrified by the behaviour of patrons recently and certain complexes seem to be worse than others so after a couple of bad experiences we tend to go to one particular cinema complex where we find people are generally more "civilised" if the movie we want to see is on there. I feel like an old fuddy duddy saying that but having people constantly chatting with each other or on their phones really detracts from the whole reason for watching in a cinema.

[GoktimusPrime]

even got told by a group of mums there I was far too strict because I wouldn't let my son have his ipad while eating.

Almost all of their HK friends have had social media accounts since the age of 7/8 so my kids got teased for that

You're not strict, you have standards. I know a principal of a local high school who is known for telling her students, "I make no apology for having high standards."

I feel like an old fuddy duddy saying that but having people constantly chatting with each other or on their phones really detracts from the whole reason for watching in a cinema.

The worst cinema experiences I had recently was during the first and last time that I saw Bumblebee. The first time was at Bondi and there were lots of people - adults - scattered throughout the audience talking. There was also a group of men up the back who were being especially loud and just cavorting and even laughing loudly at critical parts of the story. The third time that I saw Bumblebee was at Auburn and the cinema was full of kids who were just terrors as I described in last post. I honestly don't know which was worse. The kids at Auburn were really badly behaved, but they're children (not an excuse though). The audience at Bondi wasn't as badly behaved but they were grown adults.

From a scale of 1 to 10 Auburn as an IRSEA* of 1, the lowest possible score. Bondi Junction on the other has an IRSEA of 9, so pretty high up on socio-economic advantage. So yeah, I think an adult audience in a privileged neighbourhood really ought to be behaving better than children in poor neighbourhood. Although I would like to think that being rich or poor really shouldn't determine a person's set of basic manners and sense of civility. Courtesy costs nothing.

----------------------------------------------------
*Index of Relative Socio-Economic Advantage
Source: 2011 census data, ABS

[M-bot]

Yeah, I want to echo what Goktimus said about standards. We have similar rules for our kids. My 16-y-o step-son sometimes complains that he doesn’t like the rules we have as they are not the same as his father’s place or his friends. We remind him that those places have different standards that we can’t control and don’t seek to - but we do have values of our own and standards we choose for our own home, and we don’t apologise for them.

You do what you feel is right for you and your home.

[Lint]

Eh I wanted to be one of those parents who kept their kids 'device-free' but I realised my son was learning a lot more from youtube videos than I could teach him myself. By enforcing such a policy the only thing that would benefit is my ego.

He really likes watching videos and playing educational games but he isn't addicted and/or reliant on it to stay settled and always prefers doing an activity with a parent instead. It will be a fine line to walk to ensure it stays this way as he grows up.

I find the whole, "and then I caught my toddler watching something obscene of youtube so you can't just leave them with the device" a bit hard to believe. The suggestion algorithms are so focused that your child only has a network of 50 'suggested' videos to cycle through. I actually have to actively 'seed' new videos into my account from time to time so that he gets exposed to more advanced stuff.

My biggest concern with screen time is damage to his eyesight. I always try to ensure the room is well lit while he watches and that he doesn't hold the device to close to his face but ultimately young children do not have the self discipline to rest their eyes.

[GoktimusPrime]

My daughter likes watching things like Horrible Histories and SciShow Kids on her iPad so what we do is have her stream it on the TV so that it basically becomes the same as watching TV and we know exactly what she's doing. This way it also counts as her TV time and not her device time, which she prefers. It's also more sociable because I can sit on the couch with her and watch it together rather than huddling over a small screen.

Also... she recently taught me how to stream my phone on the TV so now I can watch stuff like The Basics On Transformers on the big telly!