Revenge of the Fallen Toys comments/discussion

[SilverDragon]

Yeah, yeah, I know it's early, but the toys seem to be coming out all over the world now, and they're set to be released here this month, if I remember correctly. So I think it would be nice to have some pre-release discussion of them, and eventually actual discussion when we start getting them.

Naturally, there could be SPOILERS.

I'm not too fond of the movie aesthetic when it's applied to transforming toys-it works on screen, but not so much in plastic transforming form. That said, I'm wanting to get Preview Soundwave, Ravage, Dune Runner, Ransack, and any Scorponok re-release, since I like his beast mode. I may decide to get Voyager OP since I didn't get him last time and I would like a big Optimus in my collection.

The Scouts class looks really interesting, and not simply because they're new molds. Aside from conventional alt modes, there's some ones that I'm finding interesting because they don't show up all that much, such as boats (Depth Charge). I'm especially interested in Ransack (or Baron Ransack Von Joy, as Vangelus has named him) since we haven't had a TF biplane.

[damnyouhussies]

I have never been a fan of the movie aesthetic at all, just seem to lack a certain character and they also favor complexity of intuitive creative simplicity.

That said, as you pointed out , the scouts actually look really interesting and quite unique. Baron von ransack definately looks a good pick up just for his uniqueness.

[GoktimusPrime]

I'm not too fond of the movie aesthetic when it's applied to transforming toys-it works on screen, but not so much in plastic transforming form.

I can understand your sentiment.

You're right, it's a very difficult concept to "translate" into toys. Transformers are traditionally engineered as toys first, then artists and animators adapt them into comic books and cartoons - it seldomly works the other way around. And in the case of the movie, it's even harder because of the aesthetics used in the movie. For example, the CGI model of Optimus Prime has 10,108 individual parts, 1,830,898 polygons, 27,744 rig nodes and 2336 texture maps. The volume of all pieces combined came to 153 cubic metres! And like you said, it looks fantastic on screen - which is what it was intended for. The movie designers aren't toy designers (obviously).

So really, HasTak has to do the best with what they've got. With that in mind, I think they did a pretty good job with most toys - and disappointingly with others. The Leaders could've been done better if Hasbro hadn't insisted on them having electronic gimmicks (meaning that the torsos must be blocks, limiting the engineering). But even with that limitation I thought the leaders were reasonably well done - particularly Optimus Prime. There were some disappointments here and there... Scorponok was a complete WAFTAM as a Deluxe action figure (he really should've been a non-transformable scaled down accessory for Blackout, like maybe Scout or Mini-Con size) - but overall I was pleased with the line considering the challenges the designers had.

I think when appraising the movie toys we need to be mindful of the fact that HasTak have had a daunting task of translating highly complex models into miniature and relatively affordable (remember that they do work to a budget) action figures. And for me, I personally prefer a good, well engineered toy that's fun to play with over visual movie accuracy any day. That's why I'm disappointed with what they've done with the Constructicons/Devastator. I understand that they've sacrificed the Constructicons' ability to merge and Devastator's ability for his components to transform into their individual Constructicon forms because they're striving for greater movie accuracy... but for me, I'd rather have movie accuracy sacrificed for the same set of Constructicons who cane transform from robot to vehicle and merge into Devastator. Yeah, I'll admit that a big factor in this is money - this hobby is expensive enough as it is. But another big factor is the play value... to me the way they've engineered the movie Constructicons makes them _less_ like a real Transformers gestalt in my eyes. But that's JMHO of course.

I have never been a fan of the movie aesthetic at all, just seem to lack a certain character and they also favor complexity of intuitive creative simplicity.

I like the movie aesthetics. I like them because firstly they really make the Transformers look otherworldly - there's no reason why Transformers should have human-like facial/body features. Secondly because they're more practical in real life. Having done Transformers cosplay several times I gotta tell you that the orthodox "boxy" Transformers body design makes it really bloody hard to move around. In a real life setting they're just going to look like Power Rangers Zords - i.e. people in cardboard boxes (as my costumes are! ). These complex designs allow them to do basic things like fold their arms, touch their toes, cross their legs, scratch their bottoms etc. - something not even Binaltech or Masterpiece toys can do. Transformers have human like movement in comics and cartoons because artists cheat by basically warping their bodies and ignoring laws of reality - something that doesn't work in a live action film set against photographed backgrounds, actors, vehicles etc.

Having said that, the designs are very different to the standard Transformers aesthetics, so I can understand how they wouldn't be everyone's cup of oil.

[SilverDragon]

Yeah, Gok, as you said, despite the movie aesthetic being not all that toy-friendly, the designers managed to capture at least some of it. I think the toys that best showed it were the Concept Camaro Bumblebee and Voyager Ironhide toys. It's a combination of the fantastic automorphs and the placement of vehicle bits in robot mode that do it, IMO.

Mmm, yeah, the fact that the Constructicons don't transform AND combine does suck-I'd like to be able to collect the individual bits of a combiner and then assemble it once I have them all, rather than buy a big box set (which is why I didn't buy one of the Universe combiners). However, as was pointed out on TFW2005, there will inevitably be an add-on, like the City Commander armour, that will let the individual toys combine.

Incidentally, what do people think of the new 'Mech Alive' feature? FYI, if you don't know, moving one part of the toy causes other things to happen, such as spinning gears (which is apparently what turning Voyager Starscream's head does). This apparently gives them greater capacity to deflect ranged attacks, according to the call out on the larger toys' boxes. I like it, since it conveys the idea that they are living machines, so bits should move in tandem with other bits moving. It also doesn't seem to interfere with transformation, which is a good thing-the only problem that I had with Concept 'Bee was the hood automorph not working (so he's stuck in robot mode until I realign the gears), and I'd very much like that problem not to be occurring.

[GoktimusPrime]

I hope it doesn't interfere with posing playability. i.e.: I don't want to be moving one part of the body to have another part move that I didn't want to.

[GoktimusPrime]

I saw both Bumblebee and Soundwave this morning at Target. Bumblebee looks like a retool of the previous Concept Camaro Bumblebee mould rather than a whole new toy as I thought it might be. There's a new head, bonnet panel, front fenders and a new right arm which is a missile launcher. Otherwise it looks like the same basic mould, so I passed on Bumblebee. I really don't like the new head - looks way too cutesy/cartoony to me.

I was always intending on getting Soundwave just because he's a movie character and at least a brand new toy.

Space cruiser mode


Satellite mode


Robot mode


The engineering is better than I expected - but it's nothing to write home about. The alt modes are very unearthly which can be good or bad depending on your tastes - those of you who prefer realistic alt modes may find it somewhat less than appealing.

Calling this toy a "triple changer" is a real stretch. There's only two transformation steps between the space cruiser and satellite modes... so the 3rd alt mode is more like an intermediate mode similar to those on the Beast Wars Transmetals. At 12cm he also kinda short for a Deluxe, although he is pretty bulky looking - his shoulders are as wide as his height. Overall I'd only recommend this toy if you actually want a movie Soundwave toy or a completist.

[doubleclouder]

Other than Sideswipe, I guess I probably will not get any ROTF toys. And I would prefer him to be in his vehicle mode too. ROTF Devy is tempting, as I like big bots.

Well to me, enjoy the visuals of ROTF. That equals the pleasure of collecting other of my favourite toylines

[Stompy]

Soundwave was a lot better than I expected. The paint apps were great with some very nice detailing in parts I never expected and the clear blue parts are a nice touch. Robot mode is a little mistransformed in package and looks much better out of package and done properly. It's a little stout and could have done with a little more length on the legs but otherwise a very nice poseable robot mode, with a good weight balance and decent articulation. The joints are nice and tight but the right leg did pop off the thigh. Also, the torso fold is unsecured and tends to fold up when handled.

The alt modes are decent and the triple changer is a bit of a stretch as mentioned above. The difference between the two alt modes is so minute that it's laughable. It's a nice cybertronian jet mode but the sattelite mode is a fail in my books. The conversion is a lot more involved than I guessed although don't expect too much. It's actually a very simple conversion.

The "Ravage" missile, if on scale, shows how huge Soundwave is.

Overall, I really dig this figure. It's got a lot more plastic than the average deluxe figure and feels very solid. It's a promising start to the line and hopefully the quality is on par in regards to the paint apps and feel of the figure for the rest of the line. I can't wait for the Constructicons.

[Defcon]

I'm going to wait until they hopefully release soundwave in a pack with ravage. He is a nice preview figure to start with.

[GoktimusPrime]

Btw there's alternate robot mode transformation. The one in the photo in my previous post is based on the robot mode as illustrated in the instructions and as the toy is packaged. The alternate robot mode is based on how the toy appears in Hasbro's doctored photography - including photos on the card and top of the instruction sheet etc., and that alternate robot mode looks like this:



So which one is supposed to be the correct robot mode? Without having seen any images of Soundwave's movie model I can't be certain... but I reckon this alternate configuration is more correct.