POLL: Skids, Mudflap. Racist?

[GoktimusPrime]

The racial stereotyping in these movies isn't much better or worse than what we had in the G1 cartoon really. Yes, it's a bit more adult, but it's an M film. Remember that in the G1 'toon we many Transformers who spoke in various accents, one of whom was Outback who spoke in a fake Australian accent (it was a fair attempt tbh, but still noticeably inauthentic).

Speaking in varying accents is nothing new to Transformers... and why shouldn't they? It's not as if they're even human. The movie explains that they learnt English from the world wide web, so they would be able to speak multiple human languages from a variety of different accents and mannerisms. I assume that they pick one that they like and stick with it. Unlike humans, their accents are not a result of their 'upbringing' or external environmental factors - it's been 'artificially' assimilated into their minds.

One interesting thing is comparing the way a Transformer speaks when they're talking in English and when they're speaking Cybertronian. In both movies we see Starscream speaking in both English and Cybertronian; accent and voices sound quite different. I wonder if it's even the same voice actor. I know that Hugo Weaving did record lines for Megatron in English and Cybertronian - although his Cybertronian lines are never used in the movies, we have seen behind-the-scenes video of him recording in Cybertronian (1:43: "Fiznot dibom milligret'desseth tass!").

As for saying things in a way that could be conceived as being socially or culturally insensitive... they're alien robots. It's expected that they're going to commit acts of social faux pas. Ratchet did the same in the first movie with his line about Sam's pheromones (although admittedly that's a lot more clever than Skids and Mudflap's try-hard "gangsta" talk, but one would assume that as a medical officer, Ratchet's intelligence would be somewhat above that of the twins who themselves admit to being illiterate! The only other illiterate Transformers I can think of are the G1 cartoon Dinobots who everyone knows aren't the sharpest tools in the shed ).

[Vector Sigma 13]

The racial stereotyping in these movies isn't much better or worse than what we had in the G1 cartoon really. Yes, it's a bit more adult, but it's an M film. )

Im sure it was advertised as PG here. This made me scratch my head a bit as i was having a severe moral dilemma with my 5 year old son sitting next to me...

Edit : I checked my cinema website and its rated at PG- dont know how they came to that conclusion?

[Gutsman Heavy]

they must have cocked up, it is rated M.

[SMHFConvoy]

I voted yes to racist. The characters come from a mean place. I read this thread and I am SURPRISED that it's okay to laugh at people because they are DIFFERENT.

Look at Skids and Mudflap they look different from the rest of the robotic cast and it's intentional.

[1AZRAEL1]

I voted yes to racist. The characters come from a mean place. I read this thread and I am SURPRISED that it's okay to laugh at people because they are DIFFERENT.

Look at Skids and Mudflap they look different from the rest of the robotic cast and it's intentional.

So your saying we shouldn't be laughing at the Simpsons? Family Guy? Metalocaypse? Brady Bunch? Married With Children? Any other shows that use stereotypes?

I'll pick at Simpsons first. Apu is an Indian that runs a convenience store, nuff said. Comic Book Guy, hes fat, single, big scifi nerd, is that to say that all scifi nerds are fat and single?

Family Guy, has so many stereotypes used throughout the seasons, that I just can't be bothered to type them. I'm sure alot of people here watch it and know what I mean. It got cancelled after season 2 if I'm correct? And they brought it back because people find it funny.

Metalocalypse, sterotypes the metalhead. The creator is a metalhead. I am a metalhead and I find it hilarious. So do alot of people I know who watch it. But I know that there will be some metalhead out there with a pole up his clacker that will find offence in the show.

Brady Bunch is a stereotype on the typical american family of the time it came out. Don't really need to go into it.

Married With Children has Al sitting on the couch most of the time, drinking and watching TV. Plenty of things a stereotype of the typical family life of americans now, or what it is perceived to be.

I can go on about the religous sterotypes used in those shows, but that will open up a big can of worms.

The point I'm trying to make is, there are sterotypes in every facet of life. Someone will always be offended by something.

In my opinion, people just need to sit back and enjoy TV shows, movies, and the like for what they are, fun. Some people are just too uptight.

end rant.

[Dylbot]

Metalocalypse, sterotypes the metalhead. The creator is a metalhead. I am a metalhead and I find it hilarious.
Metalocalypse and Dethklok f.t.w!

[Lithium]

I voted no. I didn't think they were trying to portray the African-American culture. I reckon they were just a couple of try-hards. At the same time, you can say that bringing Jazz into the first movie was racist because of the way he portrayed African-Americans. Just because someone's black, it doesn't mean they talk like rappers. I've never yet met a black person who talks like that. Putting that aside, Jazz is my favorite character because I don't take his personality to be a poke at racism. And, I'm not gonna judge Mudflap's or Skid's personalities to be an act of racism either. I know it isn't.

[GoktimusPrime]

Here's a stereotype that might hit closer to home: is anyone else sick of Americans portraying all Australians as ignorant, backward, bogan crocodile hunters who carry huge knives and yell "CRIKEY!"?? Sure annoys the hell out of me! One of Spider-Man's villains is entirely based around this stereotype... GRRRRR!

Fortunately Outback was never portrayed that way - his racial/cultural stereotyping was done in a more positive manner like Jazz or Blaster; i.e.: portrayed as an equal rather than as an inferior.

[quote=RobzyWell actually I've been saying it in ALL my posts on the subject! It's nothing new![/quote]
Sorry, I meant "now" as in, "Now here's my next point," not as in you've only been saying that now. Stupid written text and it's lack of intonation/inflection!! Grrr! (growling with falling inflection)

Yes... That's why this thread/poll is flawed... how can any of us living in a country and culture so removed from this issue make an informed decision. Many people have just voted "No" - as in "no, I wasn't offended" which (as I've said since the beginning) isn't the point!

The poll question asks if we think that the twins are "horrible racist robots," not if we think that their portrayal itself is racist. Just because they behave in a manner that can be perceived as racially offensive doesn't mean that the characters themselves harbour such prejudice. If anything they came off as being more homophobic when one of them said, "Go cry to your boyfriend." Other than behaving in a stereotypical kind of way I don't recall seeing any evidence that shows that the twins themselves are actually racist.

This is different from say previous Transformers canon where they have viewed factions in the forms of being races and have shown prejudice toward each other, for example in Beast Wars when Rattrap says, "The only thing worse than a stinkin' Predacon is a stinkin' Decepticon." or the many number of times where Autobots and Decepticons have spoken of or about each other in such a manner. In fact, certain points of TF canon argues that the Transformers are not politically, but racially divided. For example, in G1 both Bludgeon and Grimlock argued that the 'good' and 'evil' aspects of being Autobot and Decepticon was intrinsic, and not as others like Optimus Prime, Prowl, Scorponok, Dinobot, movie-Jetfire etc. would argue, an "intensely personal choice." Grimlock once postulated that while Primus had intended on creating one race, he had inadvertantly created two. Bludgeon argued that being evil was "in our oil."

TF canon is conflicting because at times it portrays the morality as a choice but other times portays it as part of their nature. But each time canon portrays it as the latter it's like a form of subtle racism via a hidden curriculum.

It seems to be something that is built into story-telling from a long way back, such as Tolkien (whose stories are based on Old English and Norse literature), mythology from various culture and even religious texts.

I'm not saying that this excuses any of that of course. But yeah, while I can concede that the portrayal of these characters can be racist, I wouldn't agree that the characters themselves are racist, which is how I'd interpreted the poll question but I suspect you meant the former.

[SofaMan]

So your saying we shouldn't be laughing at the Simpsons? Family Guy? Metalocaypse? Brady Bunch? Married With Children? Any other shows that use stereotypes?

The key point is not that stereotypes are used, but how they are used.

For example, he whole point about The Simpsons is everyone is a stereotype, and all are portrayed as being equally flawed. No race, profession or subculture is singled out for special derision. By being egalitarian about it, their claim to be mocking stereotypes (rather than buying into them) carries more weight.

Skids and Mudflap do not, in my view, fall into this category.

[1AZRAEL1]

The key point is not that stereotypes are used, but how they are used.

For example, he whole point about The Simpsons is everyone is a stereotype, and all are portrayed as being equally flawed. No race, profession or subculture is singled out for special derision. By being egalitarian about it, their claim to be mocking stereotypes (rather than buying into them) carries more weight.

Skids and Mudflap do not, in my view, fall into this category.

So because I laughed at them, does that make me racist? Does it make everyone else who laughed at it racist?

I still cant see how they are used in a racist way.

Another good example I could use would be the characters that Sacha Baron Cohen used. I'll stick with Ali G to prove my point.

I'm sure it offended people, but its not meant to be in offence. Its comedy. Its meant to be taken in jest, not serious.