POLL: Skids, Mudflap. Racist?

[Lithium]

I voted no. I didn't think they were trying to portray the African-American culture. I reckon they were just a couple of try-hards. At the same time, you can say that bringing Jazz into the first movie was racist because of the way he portrayed African-Americans. Just because someone's black, it doesn't mean they talk like rappers. I've never yet met a black person who talks like that. Putting that aside, Jazz is my favorite character because I don't take his personality to be a poke at racism. And, I'm not gonna judge Mudflap's or Skid's personalities to be an act of racism either. I know it isn't.

[GoktimusPrime]

Here's a stereotype that might hit closer to home: is anyone else sick of Americans portraying all Australians as ignorant, backward, bogan crocodile hunters who carry huge knives and yell "CRIKEY!"?? Sure annoys the hell out of me! One of Spider-Man's villains is entirely based around this stereotype... GRRRRR!

Fortunately Outback was never portrayed that way - his racial/cultural stereotyping was done in a more positive manner like Jazz or Blaster; i.e.: portrayed as an equal rather than as an inferior.

[quote=RobzyWell actually I've been saying it in ALL my posts on the subject! It's nothing new![/quote]
Sorry, I meant "now" as in, "Now here's my next point," not as in you've only been saying that now. Stupid written text and it's lack of intonation/inflection!! Grrr! (growling with falling inflection)

Yes... That's why this thread/poll is flawed... how can any of us living in a country and culture so removed from this issue make an informed decision. Many people have just voted "No" - as in "no, I wasn't offended" which (as I've said since the beginning) isn't the point!

The poll question asks if we think that the twins are "horrible racist robots," not if we think that their portrayal itself is racist. Just because they behave in a manner that can be perceived as racially offensive doesn't mean that the characters themselves harbour such prejudice. If anything they came off as being more homophobic when one of them said, "Go cry to your boyfriend." Other than behaving in a stereotypical kind of way I don't recall seeing any evidence that shows that the twins themselves are actually racist.

This is different from say previous Transformers canon where they have viewed factions in the forms of being races and have shown prejudice toward each other, for example in Beast Wars when Rattrap says, "The only thing worse than a stinkin' Predacon is a stinkin' Decepticon." or the many number of times where Autobots and Decepticons have spoken of or about each other in such a manner. In fact, certain points of TF canon argues that the Transformers are not politically, but racially divided. For example, in G1 both Bludgeon and Grimlock argued that the 'good' and 'evil' aspects of being Autobot and Decepticon was intrinsic, and not as others like Optimus Prime, Prowl, Scorponok, Dinobot, movie-Jetfire etc. would argue, an "intensely personal choice." Grimlock once postulated that while Primus had intended on creating one race, he had inadvertantly created two. Bludgeon argued that being evil was "in our oil."

TF canon is conflicting because at times it portrays the morality as a choice but other times portays it as part of their nature. But each time canon portrays it as the latter it's like a form of subtle racism via a hidden curriculum.

It seems to be something that is built into story-telling from a long way back, such as Tolkien (whose stories are based on Old English and Norse literature), mythology from various culture and even religious texts.

I'm not saying that this excuses any of that of course. But yeah, while I can concede that the portrayal of these characters can be racist, I wouldn't agree that the characters themselves are racist, which is how I'd interpreted the poll question but I suspect you meant the former.

[Lithium]

I half-agree with you, Goktimus. However, if you remember Maggie Madsen (played by Rachael Taylor) from TF1, she was Australian but they didn't portray her in that way. She was portrayed as smart, intuitive and persistent. She made us Aussies look good, if you ask me.

[Ironhide63]

I half-agree with you, Goktimus. However, if you remember Maggie Madsen from TF1, she was Australian but they didn't portray her in that way. She was portrayed as smart, intuitive and persistent. She made us Aussies look good, if you ask me.

mmhmmm damn right...wait wait...sorry, thinking of something else. yea, some characters can be portrayed the wrong way, i think the twins were handled awesomely...and if they did it any different, it woulda put a cap on this movie's ass.

[Lithium]

Lol I found the twins annoying but at the same time, they get the job done. *Shrugs* Yes, racism is predominant in America. So lets learn a lesson from the Americans and not make racism predominant here. This shouldn't even be an issue. Skids and Mudflap are just a couple of idiot Autobots. Lets leave it at that.

[GoktimusPrime]

However, if you remember Maggie Madsen (played by Rachael Taylor) from TF1, she was Australian but they didn't portray her in that way. She was portrayed as smart, intuitive and persistent. She made us Aussies look good, if you ask me.

I don't think anyone has a problem with that. There's nothing wrong with portraying different people differently - it's a fact of life that we're all different. We have different accents, cultures, traditions, values etc.; and introducing elements of multiculturalism into Transformers isn't a bad thing on its own. Same with female Transformers - from a scifi POV it makes absolutely no sense, but of course they're trying to introduce feminism to broaden the appeal of the characters rather than having a bunch of overtly macho blokey robots running around urinating on secret agents. Rargh. To ignore cultural differences and pretend that we are all the same is in itself insulting. Equality doesn't mean that we don't have diversity.

The issue with the twins here isn't that they're portrayed as blacks, but that they're portrayed as blacks in a negative light; i.e.: portrayed as being stupid and inferior, and in a manner that is similar to how blacks were displayed mannerisms harking back to the "porch monkey" portrayal of blacks in what is now widely considered to be racist literature. Even Mark Twain's depiction of Jim (frequently referred to as "Nigger Jim") in The Adventures of Tom Sawyer and Adventures of Huckleberry Finn have been criticised as being racist. Tom Sawyer seems to view Jim with racist contempt... not so much Huck Finn though. But Jim is consistently portrayed as "simple and trusting, even gullible", such as when he failed to recognise the King and Duke a frauds and gave them control of the raft. But Huck Finn himself wasn't portrayed as racist and despite Jim's simple and gullible nature, the book does also portray him as a father figure for Huck whose, "...logic, compassion, intelligence, and above all, his loyalty toward Huck, Tom and his own family, establish him as a heroic figure." (Reference)

“I doan’ hanker for no mo’ un um, Huck. Dese is all I kin stan’.” - Jim (Adventures of Huckleberry Finn)

Jazz and Blaster are also portrayed as blacks too (and played by black voice actors), but they were portrayed as equals to their fellow Autobots. Outback is also portrayed as an Australian, but not in a condescending manner that we see in other literature where Aussies are portrayed as beer-swilling bogans. The Simpsons episode where they go to Australia parodies the condescending stereotype that Americans hold toward Australians. And Maggie was also portrayed in a similar manner. No problem there.

So there's nothing wrong with being portrayed as being 'different,' it's the manner in which the difference is portrayed - i.e.: in an affirmative or negative fashion.

Jazz, Blaster, Cosmos, Perceptor, Outback, BW Silverbolt, BW Megatron, Maggie etc. are all characters portrayed in manners other than being 'white Americans,' but not in a negative or condescending fashion.

Skids and Mudflap are just a couple of idiot Autobots.

I agree. And as I said, I don't think that these characters are racist at all. I can concede that their portrayal can be perceived as racist though.

[Sky Shadow]

Here's a stereotype that might hit closer to home: is anyone else sick of Americans portraying all Australians as ignorant, backward, bogan crocodile hunters who carry huge knives and yell "CRIKEY!"?? Sure annoys the hell out of me! One of Spider-Man's villains is entirely based around this stereotype... GRRRRR!

Do you mean Boomerang, Kangaroo or Ultimate Universe Kraven? (Spider-Man has a Monopoly on bad Australian stereotype villains.)

[SofaMan]

So your saying we shouldn't be laughing at the Simpsons? Family Guy? Metalocaypse? Brady Bunch? Married With Children? Any other shows that use stereotypes?

The key point is not that stereotypes are used, but how they are used.

For example, he whole point about The Simpsons is everyone is a stereotype, and all are portrayed as being equally flawed. No race, profession or subculture is singled out for special derision. By being egalitarian about it, their claim to be mocking stereotypes (rather than buying into them) carries more weight.

Skids and Mudflap do not, in my view, fall into this category.

[JuzMel]

There are heaps on the net. Here's one for starters...

That's my whole issue with this thread... personally I wasn't offened either. But clearly A LOT of black people are. That's the point, isn't it?

Ahhh I had a read at the article and now I can understand why they are displeased. Certainly M.B put in Mudflap and Skids to create some sort of entertainment / joke. But I guess he did it at the expense of the blacks.

Come to think of it, them starting out as those old ice-cream trucks weren't exactly the nicest thing to portray them.

[GoktimusPrime]

Do you mean Boomerang, Kangaroo or Ultimate Universe Kraven? (Spider-Man has a Monopoly on bad Australian stereotype villains.)

I was thinking Ultimate Kraven, but yes, those others are also just as terrible.

Another example of common-place 'hidden' (and often unintentional) racism is when people use the word "Aussie" as a synonym for white Australians (or more specifically, Australians of Anglo-Celtic decent). But this is usually done unintentionally and quite innocently.

So I don't get mad at individuals who do it without racist intent, but I am unhappy with the fact that it has become a somewhat ingrained part of Australian language and culture where many people refer to whites as "Australian" or "Aussie" as the 'default setting' and in a manner where it excludes others. As an Australian myself I really don't appreciate being excluded from being defined as "Aussie" simply because my ancestral roots don't come from the United Kingdom. The term should be used to include all Australians, irrespective of whatever our differences may be.

There certainly has been more to this thread than meets the eye!