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Thread: *SPOILERS* Freedom is the right of all sentient beings...

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  1. #1
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    Default Nope, still just abominably lazy storytelling and characterisation.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    But then... I suppose that if any Decepticons were coming to Earth as refugees or not wanting to partake in the war any further, then they could either defect to the Autobots (as Jetfire and Wheelie did) or declare neutrality.
    *cough*Sideways*cough*
    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    Jetfire and Wheelie's defection illustrates that it's not a 'racial' thing but, as Jetfire put it, a conscious choice to be Autobot or Decepticon.
    JMO but this is why I like the determinist G1 cartoon Quintesson civilian/military hardware origin story better - as well as the potential for both 'races' to complement each other ('cons go out and gather resources through conquest, 'bots stay home and keep the planet running) and avoiding the IMO hamfisted 'divine/supernatural origin' BS, also allows for more interesting moral questions: can the 'cons be blamed for being warlike if that's their basic nature? It also means that those who do defect will have greater impact due to the comparative scarcity & going-against-their-nature bit a la BW Dinobot, and that the Autobots' conscious choice to fight becomes that much more impressive (as well as giving a logical reason for the 'cons being more powerful, since the bad guys are generally supposed to be more powerful from a story POV).
    Quote Originally Posted by Tober View Post
    Two buildings fell down about 10 years ago and we still haven't heard the last of it... <runs>
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by RageOnTheRoads View Post
    I mean if Bay actually cared about the characters he was portreying...(snip).
    Bwahahaha! Fun drinking game idea: every time you see a lame d**k/fart/balls/drug joke take a swig...just make sure you don't have to drive afterwards.
    Seriously, how much did he and the writers get paid for this again?
    Quote Originally Posted by RageOnTheRoads View Post
    Prime gestures to the fallen and helpless 'con. "Ironhide remove his spark and put it with the others." (or something to that effect, written by someone who could actually write.
    Ironhide: "Aww, Prime..."
    Quote Originally Posted by RageOnTheRoads View Post
    There, easy. Wouldn't take much to write it into the story, and It would actually have had Prime in character. Some simple dialogue and no whining fandom. Or alternatively they could have gone with what's in the comic and again no one would be complaining.
    Even simpler solution: have Mr "we could kill the humans/I accidentally blew up a planet" Ironhide kill him, then have Prime tell him off for it. Both Prime and Ironhide are still in character, the 'bots are still shown to be badass/acting within the realities of war, and Bay gets his gratuitous death jollies. It's not like they didn't already have an established boticidal maniac to use, but noooo...Prime's not hardcore enough!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    + Acquiring land to construct this prison. I don't think the Autobots own any land on Earth - they appear to be wards of the U.S. government and I don't know if they'd be able to hold real estate in order to construct a gaol -- again, would probably involve land ownership by an Earth government who would oversee its construction (and thus gain an insight into Cybertronian technology).
    A secret base in an abandoned warehouse. And they could use the bodies of their fallen foes to construct a spark-holding machine like the Prime-corpses-hide-the-Matrix or let's-harvest-dead-Jetfire bit.
    Last edited by SofaMan; 6th July 2009 at 10:58 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by RageOnTheRoads View Post
    Not to mention humans are guilty of the same atrocities as the cons, and yet Prime was willing enough to forgive and protect us. That is just his natural awesomeness.
    Well that and the fact Prime effectively brought the war (back) to earth, in the movie universe just as in the cartoon and comic, Primes actions led to the Transformers war spreading to Earth, corrupt as Earth's inhabitants maybe they are innocents in the Transformers war. Were Prime to abandon earth just because he believed its inhabitants warlike he would drop down a few notches and become even more cruel and cold.

    Quote Originally Posted by kup View Post
    I have recently been watching the 90s Spider-Man cartoon and during the Venom 3 parter, Spiderman under the influence of the suit defeats Rhino and has him at his mercy. Spider-Man grabs an unhinged metal door and is about to smash Rhino dead with it when he stops and reflects on how immoral such an act would be and how he would have regretted all his life if he had executed someone in cold blood while they were defenseless.

    Guess those moral values don't apply to movie Prime - Not much of a heroic Autobot at all.
    Spiderman is a superhero and vigilante who uses his powers to pursue an capture criminals outside of the law where as Prime is a solider fighting a decalred war so I don't think that's a fair comparison. Prime is still heroic in that he fight for something greater than himslef. He is however not so compassionate as Spiderman it seems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ode to a Grasshopper View Post
    JMO but this is why I like the determinist G1 cartoon Quintesson civilian/military hardware origin story better - as well as the potential for both 'races' to complement each other ('cons go out and gather resources through conquest, 'bots stay home and keep the planet running) and avoiding the IMO hamfisted 'divine/supernatural origin' BS, also allows for more interesting moral questions: can the 'cons be blamed for being warlike if that's their basic nature? It also means that those who do defect will have greater impact due to the comparative scarcity & going-against-their-nature bit a la BW Dinobot, and that the Autobots' conscious choice to fight becomes that much more impressive (as well as giving a logical reason for the 'cons being more powerful, since the bad guys are generally supposed to be more powerful from a story POV).
    The only problem with that origin story is it doesn't explain why all the TF's spontaneously get individual personalities with which they make those conscious choices. If the TF's were all just tools that decided the Quintessons were bad then wouldn't they be more like Skynet at the Quintessons are John Connor.

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