Why is Targetmaster Scourge so expensive

[GoktimusPrime]

That and the fact that the TM versions of the 1986 characters were hardly canonical just makes their prices more absurd.

Although their cartoon appearance may have been brief, Targetmaster Cyclonus and Scourge made prominent appearances in the G1 comics between 1986-1989; debuting as Targetmasters in 1987, meaning that a good portion of their canonical appearance were as Targetmasters! I personally wouldn't fob that off as "hardly canonical."

[Sky Shadow]

I do understand why TM Cyclonus and Scourge is expensive because of rarity, but its still counterintuitive to me because if a standard Scourge costs say US$70 complete and TM Scourge costs $300 complete, wouldnt that mean that Fracas effectively costs US$230?

Frighteningly, I recall that we saw someone selling one on eBay back in May for that amount. And since the link is no longer working, I guess it may have sold.

That and the fact that the TM versions of the 1986 characters were hardly canonical just makes their prices more absurd.

I think canonicity is one of their selling points for western Geewun completists though (since they all became Targetmasters in Season 4 of the cartoon). Add to that that they appeared in The Headmasters comic book, and even though Targetmaster Cyclonus and Scourge disappeared from the US Marvel comic, Hot Rod, Kup and Blurr came to Earth and retained their partners. Plus Cyclonus and Scourge had their own UK plotlines surrounding their Targetmasterness for a while there. Plus they were popular characters to start with and they have 'better' accessories than their standard versions. And they are scarce - there are scores of the other Decepticon Targetmasters on eBay and yet I can't find any complete Targetmaster Scourges.

[kup]

Look there appears to be a G1 Accurate KO Scourge now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Transformers-Sco...3286.m63.l1177

Edit: I have seen a couple of TM Scourge's on ebay but like most of the good stuff - They only ship to the US

[liegeprime]

Look there appears to be a G1 Accurate KO Scourge now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Transformers-Sco...3286.m63.l1177

Edit: I have seen a couple of TM Scourge's on ebay but like most of the good stuff - They only ship to the US

Add the fact that they charge an arm and a leg on shipping

[heroic_decepticon]

Although their cartoon appearance may have been brief, Targetmaster Cyclonus and Scourge made prominent appearances in the G1 comics between 1986-1989; debuting as Targetmasters in 1987, meaning that a good portion of their canonical appearance were as Targetmasters! I personally wouldn't fob that off as "hardly canonical."

I think canonicity is one of their selling points for western Geewun completists though (since they all became Targetmasters in Season 4 of the cartoon). Add to that that they appeared in The Headmasters comic book, and even though Targetmaster Cyclonus and Scourge disappeared from the US Marvel comic, Hot Rod, Kup and Blurr came to Earth and retained their partners. Plus Cyclonus and Scourge had their own UK plotlines surrounding their Targetmasterness for a while there.

Yes, true, true, I stand corrected. I'm even more guilty for the fact that I've read those UK comics when young and re-read them over the years. How could I forget.

I guess I said what I said because TFTM was so strongly imprinted in me when I wrote the post to have completely missed the UK comic stories.... sign. It must be age.

[heroic_decepticon]

Guys, can I hear your views on the below.

I thought of getting a TM Scourge by way of upgrade. So I got an MIB one from eBay.

There were some issues with the toy:

1. screws at Scourge's left+right forearm and elbow missing;
2. 'wheel' on Scourge's back broken;
3. disintegrator ray very loose when fixed to head (suspect its from regular Scourge rather than TM Scourge);
4. inside of upper leg missing plastic piece;
5. both knees has plastic stress damage;
6. upper legs fixed wrong way round (missing screws in legs noted in auction);
7. discolouration of the entire of the hovercraft surface ('some' discolouration noted in auction).

Although I strongly suspect the toy has been tampered with, the seller appears honest and assures me this is his childhood Scourge and he has had no other Scourge. He other auctions appear consistent with what he told me.

However, I don't know of any Scourges that has been assembled wrongly right out of the package?

Photos illustrating the above.

The seller has offered:

1. a final offer 15% refund off the final auction price (which I consider to be insufficient); or
2. I return the item afterwhich he refunds the final auction price (but this means I pay for postage back and also initial postage to me totalling approx AU$75, and have nothing to show for it).

Recommendations appreciated?

[Sky Shadow]

Guys, can I hear your views on the below.

I thought of getting a TM Scourge by way of upgrade. So I got an MIB one from eBay.

There were some issues with the toy

This is why I hate it when people describe sticking any old toy in a box as Mint In Box. That toy is so far from mint that it's ridiculous - for me that's a junker and I wouldn't want it in my collection. The only way it can be true that it's really his childhood Targetmaster Scourge is if he himself at some point has taken it to pieces and then reassembled it atrociously, leaving out half the screws. It's obviously been tampered with - if it wasn't a result of childhood mutilation then it's almost certainly an utterly failed attempt to combine Scourges that were even more junky into something that's less of a junker. I do think TM Scourge and normal Scourge have the exact same gauge of headgun, so there's no need to worry about that bit at least, and I think the headguns are generally loose in a TM Scourge head. Did the toy come with Fracas? If so, that's the main redeeming feature of what you've got there.

I don't know what you should do - if you did get a good Fracas with it then maybe you could take the 15%, buy a decent loose Scourge and give it the TM fists and head? Whatever you choose, good luck - I think I recall reading that you were about to go on a cleansing eBay cold turkey bout for six months or so - once this rubbish is sorted out, I think that sounds great.

P.S. Even though Fred's Variants Page is (depressingly) down these days due to the death of Geoshitties, this is at least the text of what his site said about Scourge:

"Scourge: to TM, or not to TM

That is the question :-) Like Cyclonus(and their Autobot movie counterparts), Scourge went thru some changes in their quest to become a Targetmaster. Again, the handholds were enlarged to accomodate a tm gun, and the toy were slightly re-molded to accomodate a gun in vehicle mode.

In the case of Scourge, that involved widening a hole already present in the top of his head, which presented a unique problem: where to store the head gun when the tm is attached....as if he didn't have enough problems with his wings before this gun issue!(for the record, I store the extra head-gun in the hollow of his legs whern in vehicle-mode). During his transition, we ended up with two different regular versions, much like Cyclonus. In this case, the choice was painted wings, and sticker wings:

painted vs sticker wings

If you want to REALLY get technical (and you know I do) there are actually THREE versions of Scourge: painted wing, sticker wing, and sticker wing Targetmaster:

3 versions of Scourge

There is an obvious difference between painted wing, and sticker wing...and between tm and non-tm version...but if you look closely at the pic above, you see other differences between the versions, which will help you to know in the long run, to avoid someone swapping parts on you. There is a distinct difference between the sticker decals on the wings (see photo). In addition, the color of the plastic has undergone a change. It's a slight difference, but you can notice.

Another point of interest? The difference between the 'head guns' on the three versions. *There isn't one.* The mold is basically identical(3-later ones were glued in-place. For more details, click here!!

So, to wrap things up:

Scourge:
Type One: regular version, painted-wings, easily-seperated headgun
Type Two: regular version, sticker-wings securely-glued headgun
Type Three: tm-version, sticker-wings, securely-glued headgun"

[kup]

Recommendations appreciated?

It is beyond doubt that he has given you a junker Scourge built from pieces from different other Scourges.

It's a clear lie and he is deceiving you. That doesn't happen by accident.

I suggest that you ask for a full refund.

If you decide to keep the toy I may be able to restore it for you but it will not be a 'Genuine MIB' Scourge since he is going to require custom fixes and other mods to get it to a satisfactory diplay level.

[heroic_decepticon]

Did the toy come with Fracas? If so, that's the main redeeming feature of what you've got there.

I don't know what you should do - if you did get a good Fracas with it then maybe you could take the 15%, buy a decent loose Scourge and give it the TM fists and head? Whatever you choose, good luck - I think I recall reading that you were about to go on a cleansing eBay cold turkey bout for six months or so - once this rubbish is sorted out, I think that sounds great.

He did come with Fracas, which is really mint and I'd say in C9-ish in condition. Comes with instructions and a box that is overall nice as well (except for the tear on the corner).

painted vs sticker wings

There is an obvious difference between painted wing, and sticker wing...and between tm and non-tm version...but if you look closely at the pic above, you see other differences between the versions, which will help you to know in the long run, to avoid someone swapping parts on you. There is a distinct difference between the sticker decals on the wings (see photo). In addition, the color of the plastic has undergone a change. It's a slight difference, but you can notice.

Do you happen to have a photo showing how the TM stickered wings are different?

Another point of interest? The difference between the 'head guns' on the three versions. *There isn't one.* The mold is basically identical(3-later ones were glued in-place. For more details, click here!!

Good to know that the head-gun is 'originally' loose!

I suggest that you ask for a full refund.

That's the issue I was trying to balance.

He is only willing to refund the final auction value. That means if I send it back, I will have to (1) pay shipping cost back to him, say about $AU25; and (2) bear shipping cost I already paid to have him ship the item here (I opted for shipping very securely and with insurance, so that was around US$45).

That means that by returning the toy, I'll be out of pocket for by AU$75 just like that.

On the other hand, accepting the 15% means I have the toy but will have to do a bit of work to make it displayable.

If you decide to keep the toy I may be able to restore it for you but it will not be a 'Genuine MIB' Scourge since he is going to require custom fixes and other mods to get it to a satisfactory diplay level.

Might just take you up on it depending on the outcome of this, ermmm... fracas.

[kup]

He did come with Fracas, which is really mint and I'd say in C9-ish in condition. Comes with instructions and a box that is overall nice as well (except for the tear on the corner).



Do you happen to have a photo showing how the TM stickered wings are different?



Good to know that the head-gun is 'originally' loose!



That's the issue I was trying to balance.

He is only willing to refund the final auction value. That means if I send it back, I will have to (1) pay shipping cost back to him, say about $AU25; and (2) bear shipping cost I already paid to have him ship the item here (I opted for shipping very securely and with insurance, so that was around US$45).

That means that by returning the toy, I'll be out of pocket for by AU$75 just like that.

On the other hand, accepting the 15% means I have the toy but will have to do a bit of work to make it displayable.



Might just take you up on it depending on the outcome of this, ermmm... fracas.

I would report him to Paypal and open a dispute. Get Paypal to get the refund for you since the product does not fit the description by far and hardly sounds like an accident.

A refund of 15% also doesn't sound fair given the state of the toy. It's a junker.