Reporting Excess Shipping on eBay

[bowspearer]

Bought a MISB Classic Tracks from johnb79.2008.

Actual postage costs: $7.60
Cost of Bx2 mailer: $2.40

Total shipping costs: $10

Shipping charge listed (which I presumed was him covering himself with an broad estimate): $45 - 450% of the actual shipping costs (a $35 "handling fee").

In addition to seller's poor attitude and terrible customer service, they are being incredibly difficult in terms of doing the ethical thing and refunding the excess - giving me the choice between either 50% of the shipping costs or returning the figure.

Then again, I shouldn't be surprised - even the eBay representative I spoke to over the phone on the matter, commented on his terrible attitude after seeing the sellers messages to me.

In fact, I think the most recent message says it all.

UPDATE:

When I raised the issue with him, he tried to weasel his way out of it over the course of 5 messages - at first trying to hide behind the listed shipping costs (as if they negate his contract with eBay when he listed the item - rather than his contract negating the charges), then insisting on either the return or only giving back 50% of the shipping costs (still a $12 "handling" fee), and even playing the victim at one point. I then drew a line in the sand- asking for the fourth and final time:

Are you going to refund the excess $35 which you charged in direct breach of eBay terms of use,or are you refusing to?

As I was tired of his weaselling BS, I added:

Just so we're clear, any response other than you agreeing to do the ethical thing here and refund the excess shipping, I will consider to be a refusal to do so.

I got a weaselling response back, so I responded saying that in light of my last message to him and his response to me, I was reasonably considering his most recent response to me to be a refusal to honour eBay TOU and would be taking further action.

This was his last message to me:

I tell u what I'll do: I'll offer u a 50% discount OR you may, at your cost return the item to me (eBay's rules, not mine) AND I will not invoice you an additional $60 for the time of mine you have taken.

(bolding emphasis mine)

I'm not even going to dignify it with a response.

Update 2:

Well it seems he wasn't too happy with my negative feedback - a comment of:

Contemptous attitude, terrible customer service, charged $35 "handling fee".

I'm basing assessment of his reaction on the following message I received from him:

Can't believe u left negative feedback - what a dirty keyboard warrior u really are. A snivelling grubby coward. Typical scum Aussie

[TAAUBlaster]

Bought a MISB Classic Tracks from johnb79.2008.

Actual postage costs: $7.60
Cost of Bx2 mailer: $2.40

Total shipping costs: $10

Shipping charge listed (which I presumed was him covering himself with an broad estimate): $45 - 450% of the actual shipping costs (a $35 "handling fee").

In addition to seller's poor attitude and terrible customer service, they are being incredibly difficult in terms of doing the ethical thing and refunding the excess - giving me the choice between either 50% of the shipping costs or returning the figure.

Then again, I shouldn't be surprised - even the eBay representative I spoke to over the phone on the matter, commented on his terrible attitude after seeing the sellers messages to me.

In fact, I think the most recent message says it all.

*Snipped the rest of the quote to keep my reply short*

That sucks man. The "threat" of an invoice for an additional $60 makes me laugh. You should report him to Ebay for that, and especially for his reply to your negative feedback. That's not acceptable at all.

I had a run in with him too a while ago. I enquired about one of his auctions, and he resorted to name calling and pettiness without any provocation after I raised a few legitimate questions with him.
Honestly, I can't understand how he has had so many successful transactions as a seller. His attitude is just appalling. Even though he has had a few things I've been interested in, no way I will ever deal with him.

[bowspearer]

That sucks man. The "threat" of an invoice for an additional $60 makes me laugh. You should report him to Ebay for that, and especially for his reply to your negative feedback. That's not acceptable at all.

I had a run in with him too a while ago. I enquired about one of his auctions, and he resorted to name calling and pettiness without any provocation after I raised a few legitimate questions with him.
Honestly, I can't understand how he has had so many successful transactions as a seller. His attitude is just appalling. Even though he has had a few things I've been interested in, no way I will ever deal with him.

Oh it's been like the Jerry Springer Show in some ways. I didn't respond to his last message directly. I did however respond indirectly by both reporting him for excess shipping charges and for his abusive and racist message to me on eBay.

Seems he must've been informed about it by eBay and wasn't too happy about it, judging by the message he left me of:

U prick.

As an aside, I wonder what he did with the few seconds he saved by writing "U" instead of "You".

He also left the following feedback for me:

This guy is a total prat. I'd go so far as to say he's definitely a virgin.

What I find hilarious about all of this is that he's sent another abusive message which goes against eBay TOU that I can report him on and it's also against eBay TOU to leave negative comments in positive feedback - meaning I can report him for that too. It's honestly starting to be bad comedy. Imagine if he finds out that I've disclosed what happened publicly here lol.

[BigTransformerTrev]

' Typical Scum Aussie' !?!?


Report him for racism! Doesn't matter if he is based here or not, doesn't mean he himself is Australian

[Megatran]

Rude behaviour from Buyer &/or Seller is never acceptable.

What I'm not clear on:
+ Was the shipping price listed at $45 at time of transaction?
+ Was the shipping price increased at anytime during or just before the transaction?
+ Prior to the transaction, was there any written agreement between the parties involved to repay any handling fees?
+ What was the outcome of the dispute when the matter was raised with ebay? i.e. the decision was in who's favour?

[bowspearer]

What I'm not clear on:
+ Was the shipping price listed at $45 at time of transaction?
+ Was the shipping price increased at anytime during or just before the transaction?
+ Prior to the transaction, was there any written agreement between the parties involved to repay any handling fees?
+ What was the outcome of the dispute when the matter was raised with ebay? i.e. the decision was in who's favour?

While I appreciate where you're coming from Megatran, the problem with your questions, while they certainly are reasonable questions to ask, is that in isolation, they lack context and are therefore somewhat irrelevant.

That context only comes when each of those questions are looked at in the context of two other questions.

Those questions are:

+Is there any agreement which automatically overrules and overrides any agreement with a buyer and seller on eBay?

And:

+In the context of the above question, is the seller prohibited from charging excessive shipping fees?

The answer to both of those questions is yes.

Firstly, any time a seller lists an item, they agree to eBay's terms of use in doing so (from memory, quite literally in the form of ticking a check box). As such, any agreement that is made between a seller and a buyer is governed by eBay's terms of use for sellers, just as it is governed by eBay's terms of use for buyers. As such there is a reasonably and justifiable expectation of sellers that buyers will adhere to eBay's terms of use for buyers, just as that there is a reasonable and justifiable expectation of buyers that sellers will adhere to eBay's terms of use.

Those terms of use are clear and explicit here concerning excessive shipping:

When using calculated shipping, make sure the calculated cost isn't higher than the actual shipping cost. If so, it's considered excessive shipping, which isn't allowed on eBay.

In other words, a seller could even theoretically charge $5,000 in shipping - just as long as the actually shipping costs were $5,000.

So with that in mind, let's go through each of those questions.

+ Was the shipping price listed at $45 at time of transaction?

Yes, the listing did list shipping at $45, however the seller had agreed in the process of listing the item that they would refrain from charging excessive shipping charges. As such, there was a reasonable and justifiable expectation on my part, that the actual shipping costs themselves would be $45. As per their agreement with eBay, there was also a reasonable expectation on my part, which by listing the item, the seller had also agreed to, that as I wasn't being charged excessive shipping fees, that if the seller had overestimated shipping costs, that they should reimburse me any amount of the shipping fee I had paid which was in excess of the shipping costs. (As an aside, I have no problem with sellers initially overestimating shipping costs if they're trying to account for a worst case scenario. I just expect them to do the right thing if there is an overcharging.)

In short, the listed shipping cost of $45 is only valid so long as the actual shipping costs are approximately $45.

+ Was the shipping price increased at anytime during or just before the transaction?

Not to my knowledge, but again, the shipping costs were in breach of eBay's terms of use the seller agreed to when they listed the item - at the very least as of the moment the seller posted the item and was aware that the actual shipping costs were nowhere near the price he had charged me. Either way, the shipping charge was in direct breach of the agreement he made with eBay when he listed the item and ultimately that is the overriding factor here.

+ Prior to the transaction, was there any written agreement between the parties involved to repay any handling fees?

Again said written agreement is covered by eBay's prohibition on excessive shipping charges (which the seller agreed to when they listed the item) which places a reasonable obligation on the part of the seller and a reasonable expectation on the part of the buyer, that any excessive shipping charges would be refunded. To that end, there is also a reasonable expectation on the part of the buyer and a reasonable obligation on the part of the seller, that the seller will refund any overcharged amount when the buyer requests it - even if that is after the buyer has received an item (which is usually when an excessive shipping charge is discovered).

+ What was the outcome of the dispute when the matter was raised with ebay? i.e. the decision was in who's favour?

As far as Paypal goes, they have no mechanisms in place for disputing excess shipping charges. As for eBay, I was told they were taking the matter seriously, but due to privacy reasons, they could not advise me of the outcome of the matter.

[Borgeman]

You used to be able to report sellers for excessive shipping. That was removed some time ago. Charging excessive shipping doesn't matter anymore to eBay because they charge a final value fee on the item amount PLUS shipping. So because they get a slice of the shipping, the bigger the better. In the past they cared because the shipping was not included in that.

Personally I have some things to put forward on the matter. I hate sellers who rip you off will postage costs, but there are things you can do to prevent that.

- I assume the item arrived undamaged since you haven't mentioned otherwise. For something so expensive, I'd happy trade the $35 for the knowledge that it was not damaged and you dont have to fight for a partial/full refund. Also take note that even if he had used a courier with extra insurance, theres no actual guarantee it would arrive undamaged.

- My other point is looking on the auction page, the postage reads "$45 Standard Delivery - Registered." That means he is using stock standard Auspost to post it. If you use eBay a bit you should know this. Even from Perth something that size will not cost $45 to post*. Why would you agree to the purchase with that knowledge? You basically agreed to give him $45 to ship the item using regular post! Doesn't matter what it ended up costing, you agreed to pay the $45. Remember the same applies if a seller quotes $10 shipping, and it ends up being $25 - the seller has to cop the hit and pay that themselves, the buyer is not required to cough up more money after the fact.

*If in doubt you can always look it up yourself using a rough weight estimate on the Auspost website:
https://auspost.com.au/parcels-mail/...le-post-guides

- As an extension from that, for anything rare or expensive you should always cover your bases by asking the seller for an specific postage cost to your postcode or how he intends to ship it, that way if he says one thing (eg: will still cost $45 to you/ ill be using an overnight courier) and does another thing (eg: only costs $15/ uses regular auspost instead of the promised courier) you have that as evidence within ebay's messaging system, thus they can see you have been defrauded and can take action to recover your money. Right now all you have is the $10 of the shipping and the box, technically you can't actually prove to eBay that it didn't cost him $35 in handling. What if he lives 100km from the nearest post office? Fuel arguably becomes a handling expense (that is just a hypothetical).

- If you do some/all of the above, and it doesn't add up, don't buy it off them. If the price of the item is too good to let go in your eyes, then you make the gamble, but you're making that decision based off all the information you may have obtained.

Again its clear this guy gave an inflated shipping cost to make a few extra bucks. I'm just pointing out to you some things to help prevent this from happening to you again. Hopefully eBay do the right thing and get you a partial refund.

[JJJ]

So is this a general "report e-bay sellers who are bad about this so others can avoid them" thread? If so, I've got one from back in April to list.