What's wrong with confusion, I consider the 3 3/4" Microman a different breed to the 12" joes, Heshin Cyborg I completely ignore and don't class it in the same line as Microman either, selective aren't I. The smaller Joes didn't come out until 1982 but I believe the 12" Joes have been around since 1964, that's even before my time . Sorry for running off the original thread Sofaman