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Thread: The non-toy Star Wars discussion thread

  1. #11
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    I don't think Lucas can tell a good story. He was lucky enough with Star Wars & TESB to be surrounded by people who could criticise his work. By Jedi, he was just surrounded by 'yes-men'.
    The prequels are an over plotted mess that leave me cold.
    With no central 'audience relation' character, we are not really invested in the movies.
    Star Wars had Luke in that role.

  2. #12
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    The People vs George Lucas. Very interesting (and amusing) documentary if you get the chance and a copy.




























    Oh, and Han shot first.
    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain

  3. #13
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    When i look back at it - yes the Phantom Menace might have been bad in some aspects but I was young and impressionable then and I am a big fan of Darth Maul, Qui-Gon Jinn, the Naboo Starfighters and Sebulba's Podracer. Everything else in the movie though is pretty lame.

    But boy do I love the imperial vehicles in the original trilogy!

  4. #14
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    Yeah I really can't respect lucas as a good storyteller anymore, while I'm sure it was his intent once to tell a good story about the rise of Darthvader, what we actually go was a huge rather illogical mess, where things are forced to happen to push the story along. Very little about Anakins turn to the darkside feels natural. it all feels like it's being forced by poor script writing. In the same way as many of the conclusions the characters draw during the films like "He went in there to hide" or "I sense a plot to destroy the Jedi" are hard leaps to to accept, even for Jedi.

    I'm not sure George Lucas is a better storyteller than Michael Bay anymore, it's just that Bay's movies seem to be blatantly proud of not having a plausible story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonac View Post
    I don't think Lucas can tell a good story. He was lucky enough with Star Wars & TESB to be surrounded by people who could criticise his work. By Jedi, he was just surrounded by 'yes-men'.
    The prequels are an over plotted mess that leave me cold.
    With no central 'audience relation' character, we are not really invested in the movies.
    Star Wars had Luke in that role.
    Bingo, that's the biggest problem with the prequels.

    That said I will always love how well colour coded the Star Wars prequel universe is.

  5. #15
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    Okay, I'm not saying that the prequels were fantastic movies or anything, but what I'm saying is that - as Lord_Zed put it - there was the intention and effort to tell a good story about the rise of Darth Vader. And he did try to do that, and at a fundamental level, the prequel movies do succeed in doing this. I'm not saying that Lucas is a great director -- if you ask most people their favourite Star Wars films are typically either The Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi, the two films that Lucas didn't direct! But I'm saying that despite his failings, Lucas at least makes an effort to tell a story -- it's not the best effort -- but it's an effort nonetheless. If you strip away all the fancy bells and whistles explosions, special effects etc., the basic story still stands... for better or worse. You strip away the bells and whistles from Transformers, and what do you have?

    To put it simply, if trilogies were toys...
    + Star Wars: The Original Trilogy - this would be a damn fantastic toy. Great value for money, awesome articulation, clever intuitive engineering/transformation, non-intrusive gimmicks... just all round awesomeness. e.g. most Classicsverse figures
    + Star Wars: The Prequel Trilogy - it's an okay toy, but not fantastic. Transforms from robot to alt mode well enough... one or both modes looks kinda odd. You'd rather not pay full price for it. e.g. most Movieverse figures (especially larger/boxed ones)
    + Michael Bay's TF Trilogy - loaded with awesome gimmicks that look really impressive on the shelf with a "Try Me!" feature. You buy this toy and bring it home -- for a while the gimmick is actually pretty fun to play with. Then you realise that the rest of the toy is kinda lacking... e.g. Combiner Class Devastator (that was a one month wonder ;p (and yeah, I got roped in too - glad I got the toy on sale though (still feel ripped off but)).

    The Star Wars prequels may have been a less than ideal expansion of the Star Wars universe, but the Transformers Trilogy (esp parts 2 and 3) really felt more like the kind of stories you made up when playing with your toys as a child with your friends.
    "Wop wop wop wop wop, here comes Blackout and - BOOOOOM! - he's attacking the humans!"
    "Fight back! A-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!! (<--machine gun noise)"
    "Ping! Ping! Wa ha ha! Your weapons are useless! KABOOOM!"
    etc.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    Okay, I'm not saying that the prequels were fantastic movies or anything, but what I'm saying is that - as Lord_Zed put it - there was the intention and effort to tell a good story about the rise of Darth Vader. And he did try to do that, and at a fundamental level, the prequel movies do succeed in doing this. I'm not saying that Lucas is a great director -- if you ask most people their favourite Star Wars films are typically either The Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi, the two films that Lucas didn't direct! But I'm saying that despite his failings, Lucas at least makes an effort to tell a story -- it's not the best effort -- but it's an effort nonetheless. If you strip away all the fancy bells and whistles explosions, special effects etc., the basic story still stands... for better or worse. You strip away the bells and whistles from Transformers, and what do you have?

    To put it simply, if trilogies were toys...
    + Star Wars: The Original Trilogy - this would be a damn fantastic toy. Great value for money, awesome articulation, clever intuitive engineering/transformation, non-intrusive gimmicks... just all round awesomeness. e.g. most Classicsverse figures
    + Star Wars: The Prequel Trilogy - it's an okay toy, but not fantastic. Transforms from robot to alt mode well enough... one or both modes looks kinda odd. You'd rather not pay full price for it. e.g. most Movieverse figures (especially larger/boxed ones)
    + Michael Bay's TF Trilogy - loaded with awesome gimmicks that look really impressive on the shelf with a "Try Me!" feature. You buy this toy and bring it home -- for a while the gimmick is actually pretty fun to play with. Then you realise that the rest of the toy is kinda lacking... e.g. Combiner Class Devastator (that was a one month wonder ;p (and yeah, I got roped in too - glad I got the toy on sale though (still feel ripped off but)).

    The Star Wars prequels may have been a less than ideal expansion of the Star Wars universe, but the Transformers Trilogy (esp parts 2 and 3) really felt more like the kind of stories you made up when playing with your toys as a child with your friends.
    "Wop wop wop wop wop, here comes Blackout and - BOOOOOM! - he's attacking the humans!"
    "Fight back! A-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!! (<--machine gun noise)"
    "Ping! Ping! Wa ha ha! Your weapons are useless! KABOOOM!"
    etc.
    What?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by kup View Post
    What?
    You know when you're playing a quick campaign with your toys -- and you're ceebs to come up with a proper story/plot (or when you were too young to do so), and so the toy play "story" just revolved around the action? That's what Michael Bay's TF movies feel like to me. It's like the 'stories' I make when I play with my toys when I lack the time or effort to try to make a real story, or when I was a really little kid and I couldn't* (unlike say when I was in high school when I had the time and inclination to play freaking long spanning story arcs! )


    "Whee! Look at me, I'm storyboarding the next TF film for Michael Bay!"

    As much as the Star Wars prequels may have its flaws, it's not like _that_. As Lord_Zed said, it still accomplishes the basic task of telling the story of how Anakin became a Jedi and how he became Darth Vader. Could it have been done a lot better? Absolutely. But IMHO the prequels aren't so terrible that they fail to tell a fundamentally coherent story, whereas I find the storylines of ROTF and DOTM to be far more haphazard and just all over the place!

    --------------------------------------------------
    *Except for all the bum shots, dirty jokes, drug references etc. Oh, and the human interaction was often cooler cos instead of using regular military forces I'd throw them in with G.I. Joe, Voltron, Robotech, Star Wars etc.

  8. #18
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  9. #19
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    http://www.newsarama.com/19490-yoda-...jedi-clip.html
    ^A deleted scene from Return of the Jedi explains why Obi-Wan never told Luke the truth about his father.

  10. #20
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    Going somewhere, Solo?



    It's too late. You should have paid him when you had the chance.

    Jabba's put a price on your head, so large that every bounty hunter in the galaxy will be looking for you.

    I'm lucky I found you first.

    If you give it to me, I might forget I found you.



    Jabba's through with you. He has no time for smugglers who...

    ...drop their shipments at the first sign of an Imperial cruiser.

    You can tell that to Jabba. He may only take your ship.

    That's the idea.

    I've been looking forward to killing you for a long time.

    <someone.shoots.first>

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